Was Brad Ausmus a good catcher?

Just looking at Brad Ausmus’ apparent effect on pitchers.

Roy Oswalt in his career: 3.21 ERA, .687 OPS
Roy Oswalt with Ausmus catching: 3.04 ERA, .685 OPS

Shane Reynolds in his career: 4.09 ERA, .742 OPS
Shane Reynolds with Ausmus cstching: 4.16 ERA, .728 OPS

Mike Hampton in his career: 4.06 ERA, .741 OPS
Mike Hampton with Ausmus catching: 3.36 ERA, .709 OPS

Jeff Weaver in his career: 4.71 ERA, .780 OPS
Jeff Weaver with Ausmus catching: 4.86 ERA, .783 OPS

I picked a few pitchers who threw a lot of their career innings to Ausmus. There doesn’t seem to be much of a trend. Obviously these data should be taken very lightly, as they don’t correct for context and the career numbers cover a lot of territory (for example Mike Hampton was a very different guy during the years he teamed with Ausmus).

If you look at specific teams and years, teams have vastly better numbers with Ausmus as the receiver than with other catchers, but this is because other catchers usually caught the 5th starter.

Anyway, I’m curious how a study like this would play out if done fully and correctly, and how much of a difference in ERA or OPS against would be significant.

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John Autin

12 years ago

Good question, Andy. I must admit, I was never a big Ausmus fan, even though he had two of his best offensive seasons with the Tigers. I was probably unfair in my judgment. On a tangent … I was just looking at his dWAR and thinking that he might have deserved more than the 3 Gold Gloves that he won. But while that may still be true, the GGs given to NL catchers during his career look pretty solid. Not breaking it down year by year, but just looking at who won multiple GGs: – Charles Johnson, 4 straight GGs… Read more »

Neil L.

12 years ago

Brad Ausmus was just an unsung hero toiling behind the plate doing all those squats that killed his knee joints.

Your comments on his number of Gold Glove Awards made me re-visit, in my mind, a long-standing question about whether voters are influenced, at any position, by the offensive contribution of the player.

Editor

John Autin

12 years ago

Reply to Neil L.

I think there’s a bias towards offense in Gold Glove voting at other positions. But I think catcher is the one place where significant defensive stats — especially SB rates — are so easily available that the voters can’t entirely ignore them. On another tangent … Livan Hernandez made his MLB debut in relief back in 1996. Sixteen years and 474 starts later, he has now made his 2nd relief appearance, coming in against the Mets in a tie game in the 5th. P.S. to P-I users: Beware of the “Active” button right now. There’s some kind of glitch that… Read more »

bstar

12 years ago

Reply to John Autin

Oh, dear. That means the Mets must’ve rocked J Jurrjens in the fourth or fifth for Livan to enter the game. I’m currently watching Mets-Braves on DVR and am in the fourth inning, anxiously awaiting that oft-pesky first run of April for Atlanta. Maybe subconsciously I was hoping I would stumble across the score of this game to avoid the misery of watching it play out.

Neil L.

12 years ago

Reply to bstar

bstar, do you really want to know? HHS does not issue a spoiler alert! 🙂

Thank goodness I didn’t post a comment to John Autin about the result of the Mets game today before you were finishede watching. Enjoy!

bstar

12 years ago

Reply to Neil L.

Nor should there be a spoiler alert! Post away, please! I just couldnt resist popping on here as I watched the game. My spidey sense tells me to turn the DVR game off now.

Neil L.

12 years ago

Reply to Neil L.

bstar, you are good! The Mets can still go 162-0! 🙂

bstar

12 years ago

Reply to Neil L.

And my Braves could go 0-162. I’m not panicking yet; Atlanta has been a historically slow-starting team, as they have not posted a winning record in Mar/Apr since 2007.

Neil L.

12 years ago

Reply to Neil L.

bstar, you pull for both the Mets and the Braves? How does that work?

Hartvig

12 years ago

Geez, I wonder who the idiot was that got this ball rolling?

Just a quick & dirty look at ’99 & ’00 shows the Tigers team ERA just a few hundredths of a run higher than when was Ausmus catching- certainly not a big difference. In ’01 in Houston it’s over a quarter of a run and 0.18 in ’02 and 0.21 in 03 lower with him behind the plate. Of course, none of those numbers reflect who he was catching either.

Still. Doesn’t matter. It’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

Neil L.

12 years ago

Reply to Hartvig

Harvig, take a bow as being the inspiration for Andy’s post! 🙂 Your comments about Brad Ausmus as well as Andy’s post bring back, for me, memories of a protracted discussion with Johnny Twisto and others over at B-Ref last year about the measuring the value of catchers statistically. As I recall, the discussion point was how low could a catcher’s offense slip and still have him remain in the starting lineup? Intangibles were batted around, but no firm conclusions were reached. Would it be fair to say that the catching position is the one least-accurately measured by sabermetrics, even… Read more »

Neil L.

12 years ago

Josh Beckett is getting lit up by the Tigers.

Andy, I know this is a hijack of your blog post but there is nowhere else to put this up in HHS for reader reaction.

Is the clubhouse beer and fried chicken “hangover” haunting the Red Sox?

I can’t wait until Bobby Valentine’s first meltdown with the Boston media or his players.

Tick, tick, tick ……..

Author

Andy

12 years ago

Reply to Neil L.

Neil, no apology necessary. When the season’s going on, we need to be flexible on this sort of thing, plus I am thrilled to have you back as a commenter.

Editor

John Autin

12 years ago

Reply to Neil L.

Beckett has just matched his career high by allowing his 5th HR of the game. Over the previous 2 seasons, among the 86 pitchers with 300+ IP, Beckett’s rate of 1.15 HR/9 was the 13th highest.

First Tigers game with two players hitting 2+ HRs since May 5, 2010, when Cabrera & Avila turned the trick in Minnesota.

Record for HRs by one team in Comerica Park is 7, done by Texas in 2007 and in 2004 by Detroit, in a game they actually lost to Boston.

Neil L.

12 years ago

Reply to John Autin

JA, what I find intriguing about John Beckett’s outing today is his other-worldly strike-ball ratio, 59 strikes, 24 balls. What a great ratio leading to such a poor ERA. Compare with Brandon Morrow’s 1-hit outing today where he threw 64 strikes and 42 balls with no earned runs. Admittedly against a much inferior team offensively, but is strike/ball ratio overrated? I know ball movement and “stuff” in the pitching sense factor in to the final result but who would you have thought had the better outing? The Tig’s look like an offensive juggernaut. (Oh no, my spelling, you are fluent… Read more »

Nick Pain

12 years ago

Reply to John Autin

Just as impressive is Wakefield doling out 6 homeruns in that 2004 game and getting the win.

Neil L.

12 years ago

Reply to Nick Pain

Nick, I’m not sure I completely grasp your point. Are you referring to Beckett or Morrow?

And you are saying…. Don’t have good control? Nibble at the corners and walk people if you don’t throw mid-nineties? Put baserunners on and work your way out of it with strikeouts?

Strike/ball ratio is overrated as a statistic?

Please elaborate and thank you for posting. I must have missed your previous comments in High Heat Stat.

But then I’m a newcomer (only been around a few days).

Nick Pain

12 years ago

Reply to Neil L.

Sorry Neil. The reply was supposed to be in regard to John’s mention of the 2004 Tigers/Red Sox tilt when the Tigers hit 7 homers, 6 off Wakefield, yet the Sox and Wake still got the win. Apparently I have yet to figure out how the ‘Reply’ button works.

Neil L.

12 years ago

Andy, is there any merit to HHS having an ongoing general “lobby” where people could post their random thoughts as games are going on?

I wouldn’t want it to degenerate into a fan-board, but a forum like that could generate raw material for you and the other authors to create blogs. Maybe the software cannot support that.

I would like to build the traffic on this site in any way I can while still maintaining the civilized ambience. It seems, to me, that HHS is under-subscribed, given the quality of blogs and discussion.

Thank you for your kind acknowledgement.

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Andy

12 years ago

Reply to Neil L.

I could easily make a standalone lobby page that would appear as a link near the top, where anybody could post anything…does that seem to have merit?

Neil L.

12 years ago

Andy, I’d be hesitant for you to implement that on my say-so alone. Run it by other respected regulars in HHS, but my vote would be YES.

A slighly more free and open virtual lobby, like you are describing, subject to moderation, of course, might be an excellent draw for people to become regular contributers to the community here.

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Andy

12 years ago

Reply to Neil L.

Well I was thinking of just a regular comment page, but maybe there’s a sort of chat WordPress widget I could put up that would enable the kind of real-time discussion you’re proposing.

Neil L.

12 years ago

Reply to Andy

Andy, no a regular comment page would be good, not a widget.

There should some form of accountability for what you say on-line so that the community members can censure somebody collectively if they get out of line.

Darn, I don’t know how it might work out, Andy, but you have a great thing going here, particularly with John Autin as an author. He is money! (figuratively speaking)

Anyway, what do I know, but thank you for considering my input.

Author

Andy

12 years ago

Reply to Neil L.

I’ve made a lobby page. Feel free to start using it!

bstar

12 years ago

Reply to Neil L.

On other sites, it’s just called an open-game thread. You post as you react to that game’s events(or other games in progress). Sounds like a great idea, Neil.

bstar

12 years ago

Unless I’m mistaken, we are talking about catcher ERA, or cERA. No one has really been able to effectively prove that this stat has much meaning, unfortunately:

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/6/19/919142/please-everyone-stop-using

Doug

12 years ago

Since we’re talking about the day’s action, something interesting about today’s Toronto-Cleveland game.

It was only the sixth time that both starters (Jimenez and Morrow today) have pitched 7 innings while allowing 1 hit or less. One of those prior games was the Koufax perfect game in 1965. Today was the first of these games where neither starter finished the game.

Announcers of today’s broadcast also indicated that Toronto and Cleveland’s 28 innings in their first two games are the most to start a season since Kansas City and Minnesota went 29 innings in their first two of 1969.

Doug

12 years ago

Reply to Doug

I’ll move this over to the Lobby page. Thanks, Andy.

JoshG

12 years ago

They just showed this on the Phillies-Pirates game – Cliff Lee has a 2.38 ERA in 29 games with Carlos Ruiz and 3.83 in 200+ games with anyone else

Author

Andy

12 years ago

Reply to JoshG

Misleading. Most of Lee’s non-Ruiz stats came in the AL instead of the NL, and in higher-scoring times (as scoring has dwindled in the last couple of years).

JoshG

12 years ago

Reply to Andy

For a run and a half?

MikeD

12 years ago

Reply to JoshG

Sure, easily, especially looking at Cliff Lee’s career and progression as a pitcher. His career ERA in the AL is approaching 4.00. He’s pitched on the Phillies at the peak of his abilities, and not facing the DH. I’m surprsied it’s “only” a run a half.

Taking 29 games at peak ability (and none of the down years) against weaker lineups, compared to 200 games, most of all in the AL is a poor comparision.

Neil L.

12 years ago

Reply to JoshG

Josh, I think Andy’s point is that there are a lot of variables to be considered in trying to pin a cather’s contribution down.

But the fact that Cliff was pitching in the NL lrsgue snd for the Phillies cannot be discounted

Editor

John Autin

12 years ago

Reply to JoshG

I don’t mean to be harsh on you, Josh; I know you’re just citing what you saw on the tube. But that is a dreadful misuse of statistics. Whoever came up with that was obviously more interested in finding an excuse to praise Ruiz than in finding an actual cause of Lee’s success. The foolishness can be seen by the fact that Lee’s best year to date was 2008, when he led the AL with a 2.54 ERA and 168 ERA+ — long before he encountered Carlos Ruiz. I’m not sure that any catcher deserves significant credit for Lee’s overnight… Read more »

Mike L

12 years ago

Here’s a heretical thought. Brad Ausmus was a good catcher because people said he was. Perception and reputation probably means more at catcher than any other position. Assuming you don’t have a catcher with a noodle arm, or one who is clearly inadequate, most of the rest of what he does back there is related to the pitcher/catcher relationship and how he frames the pitches. If a pitcher’s mind is set at ease with Ausmus behind the plate, if the umpire is inclined to give him the close one because Ausmus doesn’t lunge, then he’s a good catcher.

Hartvig

12 years ago

Reply to Mike L

Mike L- If you haven’t done so yet I strongly recommend reading the link bstar put up in post 31. It’s really complicated but if I’m reading it correctly there may be something to what you are saying but there’s also more to it than that. Unfortunately Ausmus does not appear to be a major part of the study except perhaps in how Russell Martin performs.

Mike L

12 years ago

Reply to Hartvig

Hartvig (and bstar), thanks for the tip. Really interesting article, although difficult for me to read with my inadequate math. The Baseball Analysts, which appears to be defunct, often used similar illustrations (Jeremy Greenhouse in particular like them) although i don’t remember one on catching.

bstar

12 years ago

Reply to Hartvig

Hartvig–If you click on the spreadsheet embedded in the article, you’ll find ~two years of data for Ausmus. He’s way down the list(the grouping is based on total pitches caught near the strike zone, I believe) but he’s there. Good luck determining if Ausmus was graded in a positive light; it looks to me like he was but not overly so.

bstar

12 years ago

The most extensive research done on pitch framing was done by Mike Fast at Baseball Prospectus. It’s a long read, but very well done:

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=15093#commentMessage

I recommend also reading the comments section of this article as Fast answers a lot of good questions about his groundbreaking work.

Hartvig

12 years ago

Reply to bstar

bstar- What a great link- and if you look and read closely it leads to some other great links. It’s incredibly complicated stuff- I’ve read thru it about one and a half times (more slowly the second time & following the links)- and I don’t pretend that I understand everything yet but at least on the surface it does appear that a catcher can make a real difference in how balls & strikes are being call and thus how a pitcher performs.

bstar

12 years ago

Reply to Hartvig

Hartvig these numbers eventually got computed to WAR and, along with a wild pitch blocking study that also was converted to WAR, now figure into catcher dWAR for fangraphsWAR. They are new metrics, but wasn’t Fast’s study pretty sound? In my opinion I think any improvement we can make to catcher defensive metrics is a good thing, especially since both of these new numbers are things that catchers do to help their team win that has not been addressed at all by statistics.

kds

12 years ago

Reply to bstar

Could you please give a link to show that they are included? The article mentions Sean Smith’s work, some results of which have been up on his BaseballProjection site for some time. Smith is the developer of rWAR and of the Total Zone metric that is, (or at least was) dWAR. The catcher game calling runs referred to above have not been included in rWAR.

bstar

12 years ago

Reply to kds

No, kds, it’s on fWAR, fangraphs WAR. Let me find you the link where they talk about both studies and implementing them in their catcher dWAR. Give me a few.

bstar

12 years ago

Reply to kds

It appears I was mistaken, but only partially. It’s the pitch blocking study only that was added to catcher dWAR. Here’s the announcement:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/catcher-pitch-blocking-war-update/

Click on Koprivica’s study and you’ll find him adding both his dWAR changes AND Mike Fast’s pitch framing study(which has not been added to fWAR–my mistake). That’s where I got the idea that both new numbers had been added. Here’s the pitch-blocking study:

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/another-one-bites-the-dust/

dvr intelbras

9 years ago

Hi! I realize this is somewhat off-topic however I had to ask.
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Appreciate it!

Mike Betancourt

9 years ago

Good article, thanks.