Thursday game chat – it’s winner-take-all now

Four more games today, including two winner-take-all contests.

The early game is in the books, with the Giants completing their comeback from 0-2, the first team to do so with three straight away wins in a 5-game series.

Washington survived with a walk-off win (the third in less than 24 hours) on a Jayson Werth homer, to pull even with the defending champion Cardinals and force a deciding game tomorrow.

Tell us what’s caught your attention today!

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Jim Bouldin
Jim Bouldin
11 years ago

Congratulations to the Giants for pulling it off. Buster Posey, one man wrecking crew, comes up enormous. I don’t know that there’s a bigger single hit in Giants history. Of course, it has to be remembered that the Reds lost Cueto, a big loss indeed. My attention is on the Tigers-A’s game and how Leyland handles the late innings. It’s fair to assume that Verlander will go through 7, but then what? If the Tigers are holding a narrow lead, is Leyland going to Benoit and Valverde? Will he use Coke against a lefty? Or Smyly? Should be very interesting.… Read more »

Jim Bouldin
Jim Bouldin
11 years ago
Reply to  Jim Bouldin

not counting the shot heard round the world of course

RJ
RJ
11 years ago
Reply to  Jim Bouldin

Arguably losing Cueto cost them the series. A Zito vs anyone-other-than-Leake Game 4 in likelihood looks a whole lot different.

Robbs
Robbs
11 years ago
Reply to  Jim Bouldin

Despite my wife (and dog’s) pleas to not watch Valverde I did it last night until 1:00AM local. Alarm off at 5:45 this morning. Can’t do it again. Need a blow-out!!

Jim Bouldin
Jim Bouldin
11 years ago
Reply to  Robbs

I think it’s fair to say that the Green Valley’s set off his fair share of howling dogs Robbs. And that he ain’t done yet.

Robbs
Robbs
11 years ago
Reply to  Jim Bouldin

Cabby takes one for the club! Cook beaned in a run on an 0-2 pitch? I’ll take it. Verlander comes out I hit the lights.

birtelcom
Editor
11 years ago
Reply to  Jim Bouldin

Previous Grand Slams in “Sudden Death” (final game of the series, regardless of which team wins) Post-Season Games: Bill “Moose” Skowron, 7th inning, Game 7, 1956 World Series (Yanks were already ahead of Brooklyn 5-0) Troy O’Leary, 3rd inning, Game 5, 1999 ALDS (moved Boston from two runs behind Cleveland to two runs ahead, and he followed that with a three-run homer in the 7th to break a tie) Johnny Damon, 2nd inning, Game 7, 2004 (Red Sox were already ahead of the Yankees 2-0, and Damon followed with a two-run shot in the fourth inning to put Boston up… Read more »

Jeff
Jeff
11 years ago
Reply to  Jim Bouldin

I disagree about the Cueto injury. last time I checked the Giants were heading to Cincy down 0-2. That was plenty of momentum…

RJ
RJ
11 years ago
Reply to  Jeff

Right, but as Jim Leyland has said, “momentum is only as good as the next game’s pitcher”. The Giants couldn’t do anything with the bats in the first three games. The Reds being forced to bring in Leake in game 4 was a huge break for SF. It’s disingenuous to suggest Cueto’s injury wasn’t a factor.

Ed
Ed
11 years ago

What!!!??? No infield fly called on the Ian Desmond catch???? 🙂

bstar
11 years ago
Reply to  Ed

I was yelling the same thing, Ed.

RJ
RJ
11 years ago

Unbelievable! Jayson Werth just earned every penny of his ridiculous contract!

Jim Bouldin
Jim Bouldin
11 years ago
Reply to  RJ

Fouled off 7–count em, 7!–two strike pitches to stay alive no less.

RJ
RJ
11 years ago
Reply to  Jim Bouldin

Thirteen pitch at-bat! Holy moly.

John Autin
Editor
11 years ago
Reply to  RJ

The longest 2012 regular-season AB ending in a walk-off HR was 9 pitches, Ryan Ludwick, 7/14.

Last 13-pitch walk-off HR was in 1997 by Garret Anderson(!):
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/ANA/ANA199709150.shtml

John Autin
Editor
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

OK, I just realized where the Postseason Event Finder is… We only have pitch counts for 32 postseason walk-off HRs before today. The longest of those was 9 by Jeter on Halloween 2001, WS game 4:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NYA/NYA200110310.shtml

John Autin
Editor
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

And of the 126 prior postseason game-ending RBIs with known pitch counts, the longest was 10 by Big Papi, 2004 ALCS game 5:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BOS/BOS200410180.shtml

Jim Bouldin
Jim Bouldin
11 years ago
Reply to  RJ

The homer was off a 96 mph FB. And it was on the outside corner and he hit it to left–I guess we can assume he was ready for the heater!

Jim Bouldin
Jim Bouldin
11 years ago
Reply to  RJ

Force-fed a dose of their own medicine, the Cards were.

Jim Bouldin
Jim Bouldin
11 years ago

So, we’ve got 3 LDS series guaranteed to go the full five games, and a fourth that goes either 4 or 5. Doubt that’s happened very often.

John Autin
Editor
11 years ago
Reply to  Jim Bouldin

Don’t worry, Jim — a lot of us have short-term memory problems. 🙂

2011: STL over PHI 3-2, MIL over ARI 3-2, DET over NYY 3-2; TEX over TBR 3-1.

Jim Bouldin
Jim Bouldin
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

And hopefully Jose Valverde has an extreme case!

RJ
RJ
11 years ago
Reply to  Doug

Well then, come on the O’s!

John Autin
Editor
11 years ago
Reply to  Jim Bouldin

… but we’ve never had 4 full-length LDS. And before 2011, the last year with 3 was 2001. There were none from 2006-09

John Autin
Editor
11 years ago

Nats-Cards game 4 was apparently the 6th postseason game in which neither team topped 3 hits — and the first of those to feature 2 HRs, whether by one team or combined.

BTW, none of those games occurred before 1921.

Ed
Ed
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

The 4 Nats pitchers threw a combined 158 pitches. Seems like quite a few for a 3 hit, 5 walk game.

John Autin
Editor
11 years ago
Reply to  Ed

Ed, I would have thought so, too. But there have been 61 postseason games with a higher average of pitches per batter.

Here’s the known leader — 4.94 pitches per batter (178 pitches, 36 batters, regulation 2-0 game):
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NYA/NYA200010100.shtml

Ed
Ed
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

But that does put it in the top 5%, right?

John Autin
Editor
11 years ago
Reply to  Ed

Good point, Ed. It does seem to be in the top 5%, maybe even top 4%.

P.S. I can’t name the exact number of postseason games for which full pitch data is known — there are a handful of recent games that are missing the SP pitch count.

Ed
Ed
11 years ago
Reply to  Ed

Now that I think about it…isn’t pitch count data a pretty recent “invention”?

John Autin
Editor
11 years ago
Reply to  Ed

Ed @36 — B-R/Retrosheet pitch counts for regular-season games are virtually complete starting in 1988. But for postseason games, they seem to be pretty complete starting in 1977, with WS looking pretty complete back to ’74.

GrandyMan
GrandyMan
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

Fittingly, amongst recent events, Raul Ibanez replaced an HOFer in that game – this time, playing against the Yankees. (6th inning is too early for a defensive replacement – I guess Rickey must have been injured?)

Six of the Mariners who played in that game later went on to play for the Yankees, and two (you know who they are) had played with the Yankees previously.

John Autin
Editor
11 years ago

Pop quiz: What percentage of all postseason games have occurred since 1995? — i.e., the 3-division era. (Through Wednesday.)

RJ
RJ
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

It’s over 50% isn’t it?

bstar
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

Well, it’s got to be a staggeringly high number if you broached the subject. I’ll guess 40%.

John Autin
Editor
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

Actually, it’s a mere 42% — 566 postseason games from 1995-2012, 781 from 1903-93.

Bear in mind, the span of seasons is 90 for 1903-93 (none in 1904) and not quite 18 for the current era.

At the current pace of 34 games per year,* the 3-round era will cross the 50% threshold around 2018.

RJ
RJ
11 years ago

Cuadrangular de McLouth!

John Autin
Editor
11 years ago
Reply to  RJ

It occurs to me that McLouth has hit in all 5 postseason games this year, equaling his longest hitting streak of the 2012 regular season.

Tonight is his first game since Sept 2010 with a HR & another XBH.

John Autin
Editor
11 years ago

Buck just brought in the guy with the highest HR rate in the majors this year — 32 HRs in 133.2 IP, 2.15 HR/9; a guy against whom RHBs hit .311/.891 — to face a guy with 647 career HRs. And it seemed like a perfectly sensible move.

Worked, too.

John Autin
Editor
11 years ago

Fangraphs has Darren O’Day’s outing at 0.557 WPA. He went 2.2 IP, no runs scored despite inheriting the tying run on 3rd with 1 out.

That would be the 10th-best postseason relief WPA among searchable games. (Note that B-R’s WPA numbers sometimes vary a little from FG.)

O’Day this postseason has faced 23 batters, getting 21 outs with 1 single and 1 walk, while stranding all 5 inherited runners.

Russell
Russell
11 years ago

Peralta, 10 SBs in 10 yrs…steals a base. is that a low total for a middle infielder? has he had some leg injuries in his career? he should do whatever Jeter is doing to get faster with age.

John Autin
Editor
11 years ago
Reply to  Russell

Yes, Peralta’s 10 SB in over 5,000 PAs is a low total for any position.

Out of 836 players with 5,000+ PAs since 1901, only 34 have averaged less than 1 SB per 500 PAs. There are 3 middle infielders in that group: Peralta, Rico Petrocelli and Dick Groat.

I don’t know about any leg injuries. His minor-league record also shows no propensity to steal.

Ed
Ed
11 years ago

Wow! The O’s/Yankees games is only the 10th postseason game to go into the 13th inning. And the first since the 1916 World Series to be this low scoring.

John Autin
Editor
11 years ago
Reply to  Ed

And you know who won that 1916 game….

Ed
Ed
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

Well if he hadn’t gone 0-5 as a hitter, maybe the game wouldn’t have lasted 13 innings.

Ed
Ed
11 years ago

Guess Rodriguez gets to hit this time…

Ed
Ed
11 years ago
Reply to  Ed

Nope, guess not…

John Autin
Editor
11 years ago

So is A-Rod now being “platooned” on a not-in-our-last-raps basis?

Mike L
Mike L
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

Plenty of blame to go around the Yankee lineup. You would have to pinch hit for half the team. Well, we go to a game five. O’s are a great story.

Doug
Doug
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

I see that A-Rod was also pinch-hit for during the regular season, in game 160 by a guy named Melky Mesa, in the first AB of Mesa’s career (he got a hit and an RBI). Andruw Jones also pinch-hit for A-Rod in 2011. But, the Yankees were leading 9-2 and 11-0 in those two games. Rodriguez was pinch-hit for in 3 consecutive games in his rookie season, specifically July 28-29-30, 1994, each time in a close game, and then was sent back to the minors. In 2008 (June 25th & 27th) and 2009 (Aug 21-22), he was pinch-hit for in… Read more »

John Autin
Editor
11 years ago

Now that a pitcher has been injured in a playoff game by the barrel of a broken bat, will MLB start to address these super-thin bat handles?

I’m glad Joba wasn’t hit with the jagged end.

John Autin
Editor
11 years ago

Verlander’s 89 Game Score is the highest postseason mark in Tigers history. (Unless I’ve screwed up my formula again.)

Verlander tossed Detroit’s 4th-ever postseason shutout, and first since Joe Coleman beat Oakland in the ’72 ALCS.

Doug
Doug
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

The previous As-Tigers series in ’72 went exactly as this series did, with the home team winning the first four and the visitors winning the last. Only difference, of course, was the Tigers had home field advantage in ’72 and the As had it this time round.

birtelcom
Editor
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

You don’t have to figure Game Scores yourself, at least once the game ends. ESPN puts the Game Score for every starting pitcher in its box score for the game, as soon as the game is over.

89 is also the highest Game Score in an ALDS game.

John Autin
Editor
11 years ago
Reply to  birtelcom

True, birtelcom, but I like to know what kind of GS the pitcher has going. That way I can post a Verlander DET record as soon as the last out is recorded. 🙂

John Autin
Editor
11 years ago

Condolences to A’s fans & congrats on a great year. Maybe in 2013 we’ll get to see those tarps come off.

Hartvig
Hartvig
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

They were the last team I wanted to face in the first round of the playoffs and while I grossly underestimated them at the beginning of the season and kept expecting the wheels to come off almost up until the final week of the season I was pulling as hard for them to win in the west as I was for the Orioles to win in the east. If the Cy Young voting in the American League were conducted today, it’s hard to imagine that Verlander would not win it. I think he deserves it even without his post-season performance… Read more »

John Autin
Editor
11 years ago

J.J. Hardy’s decisive double was the only hit by either side in 20 chances with RISP.

O’s set a postseason record with 7 scoreless relief appearances getting at least 1 out.

Voomo Zanzibar
Voomo Zanzibar
11 years ago

Rick Sutcliffe on ESPN Radio called the Giants big inning right after Latos stared down the ump after he didn’t get a call on a borderline 0-2 pitch early in the inning. Apparently Latos is notorious for losing it.

Voomo Zanzibar
Voomo Zanzibar
11 years ago

22 playoff games before we even get to the league championship series’

birtelcom
Editor
11 years ago

In their 20 post-season starts this year, AL starting pitchers have a collective ERA of 2.17 and a WHIP OF 0.98; hitters have a slash line against them of .216 BA/.268 OBP/.294 SLG/.562 OPS. That slash line for the hitters of the AL playoff teams against the AL’s starters is almost a perfect match to the sub-replacement level career hitting stats of Cubs backup catcher Koyie Hill.

birtelcom
Editor
11 years ago

Over the past 40 years, regular and post-season, there had been exactly one previous instance in which Yankees pitchers pitched at least 13 innings and surrendered no more than two runs but the Yanks lost anyway: http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NYA/NYA200707070.shtml

John Autin
Editor
11 years ago
Reply to  birtelcom

And on that same day, Detroit won in 13 innings: http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/DET/DET200707070.shtml Those results left New York at 42-43, 9 games behind Detroit in the WC race and 10.5 back in the division. But they finished at 52-25 while the Tigers fell to 37-40, and NY won the WC easily. … meanwhile, Baltimore shut out Texas: http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/TEX/TEX200707070.shtml How long is 5 years in big-league time? Of the 54 starting position players in these 3 games, those who are still MLB regulars: Now with Detroit – None Now with Boston – Pedroia, Ortiz Now with Orioles – Markakis (injured) Now with Rangers… Read more »

Ed
Ed
11 years ago
Reply to  birtelcom

Nice find Birtelcom! In that earlier game, only 7 pitchers were used by the two teams, compared to 16 last night. And all 9 Yankees starters played the full game.

birtelcom
Editor
11 years ago

Yankees hitters collectively had a Win Probability Added for last night’s game of -1.143. That is the worst collective WPA for a team’s hitters in one game in the history of the major league post-season. It breaks Brooklyn’s record from Game 2 of the 1916 World Series, when the 21-year-old pitcher Babe Ruth held Brooklyn to one run over 14 innings.

John Autin
Editor
11 years ago
Reply to  birtelcom

Maybe Alex finds comfort in having just the 3rd-worst WPA on last night’s squad.

birtelcom
birtelcom
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

Or perhaps he simply takes comfort in counting his money. (Sorry, couldn’t resist).

Mike L
Mike L
11 years ago
Reply to  birtelcom

These Yankees are a far cry from the 1996-2000 Yankees. Too much reliance on power, not enough youth, and not as many hard-heads. They miss Gardner, but what they really miss are players like O’Neill. If they really do try to get under the luxury tax threshold in 2014, it’s a great time for them to rethink the current model. That’s hard to do when you win 95 games a year.

RJ
RJ
11 years ago

Oakland batters struck out 50 times in the series, which, as Richard Chester informs, falls five short of the record in a five-game postseason set: http://www.highheatstats.com/2012/10/talk-about-athletics-at-tigers-alds-game-1/#comment-40598

Game 3 was their downfall, whiffing only 4 times against Anibal Sanchez et al.

Richard Chester
Richard Chester
11 years ago
Reply to  RJ

Those 50 Ks were the second highest for the LDS, tied with the 2011 Yankees. For a 5 game LCS the record is 44 by the 1999 Yankees and for a 5 game WS the record is 50 by the 1929 Cubs.

John Autin
Editor
11 years ago

In winner-take-all postseason games:

– The Yankees are 11-11 over all, 5-5 at home. Their last home win was the 2003 ALCS; the last home loss was the 2011 ALDS.

– The Orioles are 1-3 over all, 1-1 on the road. The win was this year’s WC game; the loss was the 1973 ALCS against Oakland.

New York is 11-6 in postseason games in the new Stadium, but 2-3 since 2011.

John Autin
Editor
11 years ago

Postseason teams starting 9 nonpitchers age 29+ are now 16-24. (But the Yanks are 8-6.)

John Autin
Editor
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

On the age front:

– Teams with 3 or more players age 37+ are 9-15 in postseason games. Teams with 2 or more are 64-80.

– Teams with 2 or more such players are 10-18 in postseason finales.

New York’s game 1 lineup with Ibanez starting — 4 position players age 37+ — has been matched just twice before in postseason history, both by the 2001 Mariners in their ALCS loss to the Yanks.

RJ
RJ
11 years ago

So Jason Hammel is going tonight with for the Orioles, having had the best season of his career. The O’s acquired Hammel from the Rockies, who got Jeremy Guthrie in return. Guthrie had a horrible time in Denver and was swapped mid-season for the Royals’ Jonathan Sanchez, who contrived to be even worse. Guthrie, meanwhile, had a great end of the season with Kansas.

The Rockies rotation would have likely sucked no matter what they did, but boy have their trades not worked out for them.

John Autin
Editor
11 years ago
Reply to  RJ

Maybe we couldn’t predict how bad Guthrie would be with the Rockies — but when you look at his career HR rate, it’s hard to imagine him succeeding in Coors Field.

The Rockies also had an awful defensive year — last in defensive runs saved, next-to-last in total zone rating. With his subpar K rate, Guthrie has to have decent defense. The combination of Coors, his low GB/FB ratio and his corner outfielders was lethal; Guthrie had a 9.40 ERA, .368 BA and 1.135 OPS in Coors Field.

John Autin
Editor
11 years ago

“Alex Rodriguez not in starting lineup”
http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/8495045/alex-rodriguez-new-york-yankees-benched-amid-slump-game-5-vs-baltimore-orioles

Quick, name a more newsworthy instance of a manager choosing not to start a healthy player.

BTW, if you read about A-Rod’s career numbers vs. Hammel (.333/1.282), remember that the good stuff happened a long time ago.

Ed
Ed
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

Over the last three postseasons, Rodriguez is 11-66 with only 2 doubles. Ouch! I think the “Alex Rodriguez can’t handle the pressure” meme is a bit overblown. But he’s clearly struggling. And the Yankees do have a quality alternative available who does hit righties. The fun thing is that the Yankees get 5 more years of this!!!

birtelcom
birtelcom
11 years ago
Reply to  Ed

I don’t know if the Yanks will live with this for another five years. Perhaps the Yankees send him to some other team over the winter, along with a tidy $100 million check (may have to supersize the check to fit all those zeros, like those Publisher’s Clearinghouse jackpot winner checks)? Being the team that is wealthier than God provides lots of flexibility.

Mike L
Mike L
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

I’ve always wondered if A-Rod’s managers since he signed with Texas didn’t see him as an albatross. He’s paid way too much and is too famous to bench. This will lead to a lot of second guessing. However, in fairness to Girardi, if this guy wasn’t A-Rod, you have a guy who has has six straight years of declining productivity, albeit from a extremely high peak. If he were a free agent, he’s worth a short term contract at best. Not the center of the lineup

John Autin
Editor
11 years ago
Reply to  Mike L

Ironic, though, that he’s replaced by Chavez, whose own postseason record is pretty crappy: .211 BA, .256 OBP, .607 OPS in 30 games, and 0-5 this series. Chavez is 6 for 51 from 2003-present.

I don’t think it’s a bad move, but I do think it leaves Joe a player shy on the bench. Alex has never had a pinch-hit in the major leagues — 0 for 15, counting postseason.

But I’m really looking forward to the reaction if he comes out to PH against a lefty in the late innings.

Ed
Ed
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

Although his overall numbers are bad Chavez has played well in 4 of his 6 postseason series as a regular. (OPS between .810 and .959).

Mike L
Mike L
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

Not necessarily a bench problem. It depends on who is pinch hit for, since Chavez can move between first and third, but not elsewhere, and Arod can always go back to third (and, in a pinch, short). I guess the point may be that Girardi just doesn’t trust ARod to hit at this point, so it’s just a question of how many empty at bats he might get.

mosc
mosc
11 years ago
Reply to  Mike L

Every time I think about that Texas signing I think what a bargain it was. It covered 2001 to 2010 (ages 25 to 34). He won 3 MVP’s (got votes EVERY year), missed an average of <15 games per year, Batted an atrocious .299/.394/.577/.971 OPS+ 150, and was a positive impact defensive player at two different skill positions. He also stole 168 bases at a very respectable 82% success rate. I think if you look up $250million in the dictionary, that's about what you'd expect. It also would have kept texas free of the aging 35+ years. The main problem… Read more »

Doug
Doug
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

Some notable post-season benchings. Although he was 42, Pete Rose played in 151 games for the Phillies in 1983, and started every game of the post-season. Except game 3 of the WS. In his prime, David Justice was twice benched in post-seasons where he started every other game – in game 4 of the 1995 NLCS and in game 5 of the 1998 ALCS. In his first season in New York, Reggie Jackson took a seat for the final game of the 1977 ALCS in which he had batted 1 for 14, his only missed start of that post-season (the… Read more »

John Autin
Editor
11 years ago

The bar is set pretty low for CC tonight.

– In the Yanks’ last 4 winner-take-all games, no SP has gotten an out in the 4th inning.

– No SP has won in their last 13 winner-take-all games, and only 1 logged a Quality Start (Clemens, 2001 WS game 7).