Tigers-Giants World Series: The battle of Darrell & Doyle, or Rowdy Richard’s revenge

The Giants, owners of 19 modern pennants, and the Tigers (11) have never met in the World Series. And very few players have had good years with both teams:

  • Darrell Evans is the only position player to post a 3-WAR season for both the Giants (1978, ’80, ’83) and Tigers (1985-87).
  • Doyle Alexander is the only pitcher with a 3-WAR season for each club — 1981 with the  Giants (his lone year there), 1987 with Detroit (4.3 WAR in just 11 brilliant games).

The few who played in the postseason for each side:

  • SS Dick Bartell (“Rowdy Richard”) started for the 1936-37 Giants and 1940 Tigers, all of whom lost in the WS.
  • Tom Haller was a platoon starter for the 1962 Giants (who lost the WS in 7) and ended his career as a third-stringer for the ’72 Tigers, getting 1 AB in the ALCS.
  • 2B Eddie Mayo — the second-best-known Mayo in Tigers history — broke in at the hot corner for the 1936 Giants and got 1 AB in the WS, then had his best year at age 35 for the 1945 Tigers and started all 7 games in their WS win.
  • Don McMahon, one of the first pure relievers to have a long career, was a shrewd midseason pickup for the ’68 Tigers and pitched 2 games in that Series (one good, one not), then was dealt to SF mid-’69 (for Cesar Gutierrez!!!) and logged 3 scoreless innings (at age 41) in their ’71 NLCS loss.
  • OF Pat Sheridan. Really?
  • IF Neifi Perez. OK, it happened, but both sides have agreed not to discuss the matter.

A couple other notables who played for both teams:

  • Harvey Kuenn, the 1953 Rookie of the Year and 1958 batting champion with Detroit, batted .304 as a regular for the ’62 Giants, but played only 3 games in the WS, with 1 single in 12 ABs.
  • 2B Tito Fuentes was a 7-year starter with San Francisco and hit the come-from-behind HR that led to their only win in the ’71 NLCS. He signed with Detroit as a free agent in ’77 and pulled a .309 BA out of his … hat, besting his prior career average by 35 points. But with Lou Whitaker ready, Detroit sold Tito during the ’79 spring training to Montreal, who released him before the season started, and he wound up in just 13 games with Oakland that year and then retired. From 190 hits, to 6, to done.

Roger Craig was Detroit’s pitching coach from 1980-84, helping Jack Morris and others to master the split-finger fastball, then managed the Giants from 1985-92, leading them to the ’89 pennant and ’87 division title.

The most beloved person to work for both teams has to be the late Ernie Harwell, who called games for the Giants from 1950-53 (including the TV broadcast of the 1951 playoff) and for Detroit from 1960-2002. His Tigers tenure spanned the entire careers of not only Mickey LolichMickey StanleyNorm CashBill FreehanWillie Horton and John Hiller, but also Alan TrammellLou Whitaker and Jack Morris. He even called the rookie years of Omar Infante and Ramon Santiago, the only members of Ernie’s final team who are with the current Tigers. Ernie was the sound of my first Tigers season, his dulcet tones coming out of my dad’s parked VW bug in 1969 while my brother and I played pickle on our front lawn in the late sun of daylight saving at the western edge of the Eastern time zone. He ruined me for anyone else.

The sides have played four interleague series, with the Giants holding a 7-5 edge. They took 2 of 3 last July, beating Jose Valverde and then pummeling Max Scherzer for 9 runs in 2+ IP. The only SP on the current teams with extensive experience against the other side is Anibal Sanchez, who has mastered the Giants at a 3-1, 1.98 clip in 5 starts over the past three years.

Here are the times the Giants and Tigers came closest to squaring off for the championship:

1908 — In a year of epic pennant races in both leagues, the Giants famously fell a game short of unseating the dynastic Cubs, while Detroit defended its AL crown by a half-game over Cleveland, thanks partly to the absence of a rule requiring postponed games to be made up if they might impact the standings. (On the other hand, Detroit’s missing game was against 7th-place Washington, whom they dominated by 16-5.) The Cubs mauled the Tigers for the second straight WS, although Detroit did manage a win this time.

1934 — Detroit’s first pennant in 25 years and a club 154-game record 101 wins. But their anticipated first meeting with the Giants vanished when the defending champs blew a 7-game September lead by finishing 8-13 and 1-6, getting knocked out on the final weekend with two home losses to 6th-place Brooklyn. In the Series against St. Louis, Detroit brought home a 3-2 lead but dropped the last two to remain one of two AL franchises still without a championship.

1987 — The only year that both teams finished first. But while Detroit had baseball’s best record (98-64), they had to sweep Toronto on the final weekend to claim their ha’pennant, while the Giants clinched with a week to go in what was a down year for the NL West, with just one other team over .500 and the others sporting the league’s four worst records. Surprisingly, the Giants got closer to the World Series, holding a 3-2 edge in the NLCS before St. Louis took the last two at home by 1-0 and 6-0, while the Tigers were abruptly dismissed by the 85-win Twins.

1909 — Detroit copped a third straight pennant, while the Giants’ .601 W% brought them only 3rd place.

1935 — Detroit’s pennant defense started slowly, but they caught fire in July and cruised to a repeat. The Giants did the opposite, starting 47-19 and holding 1st place until late August, but fading to 3rd with a 17-19 finish.

1971 — The Giants won their first NL West title with a scant 90 wins, while Detroit won 91 but finished a dozen back of the Oriole juggernaut.

2011 — Detroit won the AL Central, while the defending champs came up short in a late wild-card chase.

1911, 1923, 1936-37 — Giants won the pennant while Detroit finished 2nd but well off the pace.

1968 — Vice versa.

So, who do you like in the 2012 World Series, and what else might we see for the first time?

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Hartvig
Hartvig
11 years ago

As always great stuff, in particular about Ernie Harwell and the line about Neifi Perez. You even taught me a few new things (like Haller playing for the Tigers) or reminded me of some that I had forgotten (like Tito’s big year). I’m a little disappointed that we’re not going to get a chance for revenge for 2006 but overall I think we line up well against the Giants. Overall their left handed hitters weren’t much of a factor in the LCS (except Sandoval) and that bodes well for our righty dominated starters if not our 2 best relievers (Coke… Read more »

Ed
Ed
11 years ago
Reply to  Hartvig

Should be interesting to see who the Giants start in game 1. If it were up to me, I’d go with Bumgarner. Sure he’s been horrible in two postseason starts (both at home) but since you’re likely going to lose to Verlander anyway, why waste one of your better pitcher against him. Save them to match up against the Tiger’s lesser starters. And who knows, maybe they’ll get lucky and Bumgarner will return to form and they’ll “steal one” from the Tigers.

Max
Max
11 years ago
Reply to  Hartvig

As one who played little league during Tito’s big year, I can still do his bat flip.
Step 1: Hold the bat upside-down in your hands as you approach the plate;
Step 2: Tap the dirt just beyond the plate twice with the handle of the bat;
Step 3: Flip the bat in the air;
Step 4: Catch it (little leaguers often had trouble with this part).
Step 5: Assume hitting position.

Ed
Ed
11 years ago
Reply to  Hartvig

So it looks like the Giants are going Zito, Bumgarner, Vogelsong and Cain. With Lincecum consigned to the bullpen.

James Smyth
11 years ago

Two historically significant, but relatively little-known players that played for both the Tigers and Giants:
Dick Littlefield, who was traded from the Giants to the Dodgers for Jackie Robinson. Jackie chose to retire instead and the deal was cancelled.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/littldi01.shtml

Earl Webb, who set the single-season doubles record with 67 for the Red Sox in 1931. The closest anyone has come to the mark was in 2000, when Todd Helton (59) and Carlos Delgado (57) made a run at it. It’s worth noting that Craig Biggio was on pace for 62 when the strike hit in 1994.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/webbea01.shtml

Richard Chester
Richard Chester
11 years ago
Reply to  James Smyth

James: You missed a few. George Burns had 64 doubles in 1926, Joe Medwick had 64 in 1936, Hank Greenberg had 63 in 1934, Paul Waner had 62 in 1932 and Charlie Gehringer had 60 in 1936.

James Smyth
11 years ago

Gah! I forgot to put “recently”…there were definitely some big numbers put up during the other offensive boom of the 30s.

James Smyth
11 years ago

Gah! I meant to put “recently”…there were definitely some big numbers put up during the other offensive boom of the 30s.

e pluribus munu
e pluribus munu
11 years ago
Reply to  James Smyth

Richard’s point and your gahs notwithstanding, James, Webb’s 1931 performance is one of the truly great anomalies among baseball records. I’ve never really understood it. Owen Wilson’s odd triples record has an explanation (league context and the Pirates’ park), but Webb’s doubles record does not seem to. How does a 33 year-old mostly minor league journeyman without any other outstanding performance accomplish an apparently unmatchable number of doubles in one 154-game season? It’s one of my favorite baseball oddities; every year, I hope to see someone even more obscure surpass it.

e pluribus munu
e pluribus munu
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

Good analysis, John. I really hadn’t looked closely at Webb’s batting record in the Minors, though I knew about his late batting title. I had noticed his 1930 season was pretty good, but, you know, he could have led the 52-102 Red Sox with an OPS+ of 99. Let me tilt you back a little towards the “journeyman” direction. Webb’s nice ’27 season was for 394 PAs and just 332 ABs (he qualified because of the old 100G rule) and he drew a fair number walks, accounting for quite a bit of value (true for all his career – good… Read more »

Richard Chester
Richard Chester
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

I thought that perhaps a special ground-rule was in effect at Fenway that year. In 1930 the Sox had 257 doubles of which Webb had 30 leaving 227 for the rest of the team. In 1931 the Sox hit 289 doubles of which Webb had 67 leaving 222 for the rest of the team. So it looks there was no such rule in effect.

e pluribus munu
e pluribus munu
11 years ago

Good thought and a nice way to check, Richard.

So we can join JA in his toast . . .

Ed
Ed
11 years ago

Interesting factoid from Webb’s SABR bio:

“Of those, 33 were hit at Fenway Park, and six were hit at Braves Field, where the Red Sox played all of their Sunday home games because of an old Blue Law forbidding playing baseball near a church.”

Richard Chester
Richard Chester
11 years ago

As long as we’re the subject of the Red Sox playing at Braves Field, all of their 1915 and 1916 WS “home games” were played there to take advantage of the larger seating capacity. In the 1918 WS they played at Fenway but the opposing Cubs played their “home games” at Comiskey Park for the same reason.

RJ
RJ
11 years ago

So, wow basically. JA: two games into the NLDS I never thought that your little comment to me that we might hopefully get a Cain-Verlander match-up in the WS would happen (and we still probably won’t, given the out-of sync Giants rotation), but here we are anyways, Detroit vs SF.

I have to say, I’m glad MLB.com’s position-by-position breakdown has given the overwhelming edge to the Tigers, as I seem to remember the same pundits predicting victories for the Braves, Phillies and Rangers in 2010.

Ed
Ed
11 years ago

BTW, I don’t think we’ve discussed the “Melky Cabrera decision”. He was eligible to be activated following the 5th postseason game but the Giants declined to do so. On the one hand, I feel that Cabrera’s done his time and if he can help your team win then you should use him. But the Giants probably felt he’d be too big of a distraction and they’d have to drop someone from the roster who hadn’t cheated. Thoughts?

Jason Z
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

In regards to Melky, I have heard that the players were quite miffed to put it politely. They wanted to prove they could win without Melky, and despite that crazy trade the Dodgers made with Boston. At the time the “pundits” were not giving the Giants much of chance. Management supported the locker room and declined to activate Cabrera. Knowing this would happen Cabrera announced publicly that he would not return for the postseason. Considering what occured in that locker room, I would be shocked to see them even attempt to resign Cabrera. The Giants have adopted this mentality to… Read more »

Phil
11 years ago

I was thinking about the same thing this morning. Good for the Giants; if they’d won with Cabrera around, there’d always be talk (warranted or not) that it was somehow tainted.

Something else: how strange it is that the Cards keep getting involved in seventh-game blowouts. They lost this year (9-0), in ’96 (15-0), and in ’85 (11-0). In ’34, they won (11-0).

Ed
Ed
11 years ago
Reply to  Phil

Yep, the three biggest game 7 blowouts have all involved the Cardinals. Last night’s game was the 4th biggest ever, tying the Yankees beating the Dodgers 9-0 in the ’56 WS and the Red Sox beating the Indians 11-2 in the ’07 ALCS.

Brent
Brent
11 years ago
Reply to  Phil

These last 3 games are eerily reminescent of the Cards last 3 games in the 1996 NLCS, when they blew a 3-1 lead. Then they lost 14-0, 3-1, 15-0. Here it was 5-0, 6-1, 9-0.

Also, in all three of the series where the Cards were blow out in Game 7, they had a 3-1 lead in the series (85 WS, 96 NLCS, 12 NLCS)

Evil Squirrel
11 years ago
Reply to  Brent

The Cards have blown four 3-1 leads in best of seven series now (throwing in the 1968 WS, which also had a 13-1 blowout Game 6). I heard they’re the only team in ML history that’s even blown two 3-1 leads, let alone four… ouch!

Ed
Ed
11 years ago

Someone should double check this but I believe the Giants 103 home runs is the fewest for a WS team since the ’88 Dodgers (99).

James Smyth
11 years ago
Reply to  Ed

That’s right, and the Giants are the first pennant winner to finish last in the league in homers since the 1987 Cardinals (94).

e pluribus munu
e pluribus munu
11 years ago

I never listed to Ernie Harwell in New York, but recalling warm twilight drives over Michigan country roads, windows down and radio on, Harwell calling the game, is a memory of Eden before the Fall. Much as I had loved Red Barber before moving to Michigan, Harwell seemed to stand back and let you be at the game, in good company, in a way I’ve heard no other announcer approach.

Jeff
Jeff
11 years ago

Well said Mr. Pluribus. I was one of those kids who would sneak a radio into my bed and listen to Ernie and Paul, hoping my favorite player, Sweet Lou, would hit another homer into the overhang in rightfield.

The genius of Ernie was the silences he would allow between pitches. The radio guys today talk non-stop, between every pitch. Dickerson is ok, but he never shuts up and yells too much. I guess Ernie ruined me for everyone elso, also.

Jason Z
11 years ago
Reply to  Jeff

I would also sneak the radio under the pillow so I could listen to the Yankees. Then when the game ended, I couldn’t sleep until I heard the postgame show and scores for Boston and Baltimore. In 1977 the AL East was a pretty decent race for most of that season amongst the Bombers, Bosox and Birds Later, when driving through the Midwest at night I could tune the AM radio and get games in Detroit, Cleveland, Atlanta, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, New York, St. Louis, Milwaukee and even Houston on a couple of occassions. I loved to do that. But of… Read more »

Robbs
Robbs
11 years ago
Reply to  Jason Z

I’m one of the millions who grew up with Ernie and Paul. His “funeral” or remembrance at Comerica Park was something I’ll never forget (three deep all the way around the park all day). Today’s radio broadcasters hampered by EVERYTHING being sponsored by a local business. I understand it, and I know it’s not going away, just tougher to do a more understated broadcast with like Jeff says,”the silence between the pitches”.

Brent
Brent
11 years ago

So I was thinking about the fact that the Giants and Tigers have never met for the WS this morning and wondered how the other 14 original franchises stack up with regard to meeting in the WS. Yankees have played all 8 original NL teams in the WS (they accomplished this before expansion when they met the Braves in 1957) A’s have played 6 (not the Pirates, not the Phillies) Red Sox have played 6 (not the Pirates, not the Braves) Browns/Orioles have played 5 (not the Cubs, Braves and Giants) Senators/Twins have played 5 (not the Cubs, Reds and… Read more »

Max
Max
11 years ago
Reply to  Brent

Tigers and Pirates played in 1909.

Brent
Brent
11 years ago
Reply to  Max

yeah, I missed that the first time on the Pirates too and fixed it, but forgot to go back to AL and fix the Tigers. So the Tigers now have played everyone in the WS but the Dodgers, Braves and Phillies.

JW Lewis
JW Lewis
11 years ago
Reply to  Brent

Also, Red Sox and Pirates in the inaugural series of 1903 (although Sox were actually more often called “Americans” back then).

Brent
Brent
11 years ago
Reply to  JW Lewis

That one I legimately missed. So the Redsox have played everyone but their original city mates the Braves. And the Pirates have played everyone but the A’s, White Sox and Indians.

And I guess I don’t have a way to go back and mark through the errors

Ed
Ed
11 years ago
Reply to  Brent

I think we’re going to be waiting a LONG time for that Indians-Pirates World Series.

topper009
topper009
11 years ago
Reply to  Brent

Trivia: Who is the only team to play every team from an entire division in the world series (assuming the current division set up but going back to 1903 for world series match ups)?

e pluribus munu
e pluribus munu
11 years ago
Reply to  topper009

Looks like the Phillies to me, Topper. Counter-intuitive for me, given how rarely they’ve made the Series.

topper009
topper009
11 years ago
Reply to  topper009

Correct with the Phillies
Yankees: 1950, 2009
Red Sox: 1915
Orioles: 1983
Blue Jays: 1993
Rays: 2008

Also Royals 1980.

brp
brp
11 years ago

All I have to say is thank you San Francisco for beating the M.F. Cardinals. I watched that damn team survive against Texas last year and Washington this year when down to their final strike, so I made sure not to watch game 7 of the NLCS.

Bryan O'Connor
Editor
11 years ago

A rare allusion to Merkle’s boner without using the word “boner”. Or “Merkle”, for that matter. I like the Cardinals over the Yankees in 7, by the way.

Brandon
11 years ago

Great review as always JA. I must add that Omar Infante was also a rookie on that 2002 Tigers team with Santiago.
Ernie Harwell was the best!

Jim Bouldin
11 years ago

“So, who do you like in the 2012 World Series…”

Well I for one could not be happier, seeing my two league favorites going at it. I like the Tigers for sure though.

“and what else might we see for the first time?”

An extended version of a nice Grateful Dead tune during the 7th inning stretch in SF would be nice…

Steven
Steven
11 years ago
Reply to  Jim Bouldin

Are there any “unextended” Grateful Dead tunes?

Steven
Steven
11 years ago
Reply to  John Autin

I was at a couple of their shows in the mid-seventies. Vendors (legal and otherwise) made a helluva lot of money during their jam sessions. Likewise with the Allman Brothers…meanwhile, Mike Schmidt was hitting .196 with the Phillies.

Jim Bouldin
11 years ago
Reply to  Steven

Good point.

Anyway, all the Giants appear to need is the middle stanza from Franklin’s Tower:

“Some come to laugh their past away” (2010)
“Some come to make it just through one more day” (2012)

Voomo Zanzibar
11 years ago

…And two years later, Barry Zito pitches Game One while Timmy the Freak is (maybe) a long reliever.

As said by one of the previous Cardinals to get blown out in a Game 7
(well, for two batters):

YOUNEVERKNOW
____________

On my way to the local Bar now wearing Carharrt pants
(closest thing I’ve got to Orange).