Quiz – Jeff Cirillo (new follow-up quiz added)
Jeff Cirillo is a true throwback player, the only player in the expansion era with an unusual batting feat, accomplished since 1935 only by these hitters. What is this now rare seasonal feat?
| Player |
| Jeff Cirillo |
| Ted Williams |
| Jackie Robinson |
| Joe DiMaggio |
| Lou Gehrig |
| Zeke Bonura |
| Luke Appling |
| Charlie Gehringer |
| Gus Suhr |
| Joe Medwick |
Hint: from 1920 to 1934, this feat was accomplished a total of 30 times by 20 different players.
Congratulations to Artie Z! He correctly identified the players in the quiz as those since 1935 to have one or more seasons driving in teammates and being driven in by them 100 or more times each. That is, R – HR and RBI – HR are both 100 or more. Jeff Cirillo, with 11 HR, 111 Runs and 115 RBI in 2000, is the first and only player since 1949 to accomplish this feat. The 43 times this has been done since 1920 are here. The 6 times this was done from 1901 to 1919 are here.
And, congratulations to Richard Chester! He solved the follow-up quiz, identifying Sammy Sosa’s 2001 season as the first and only season since 1949 with Runs plus RBI totaling to 300 or more. Here’s that list.
The largest gap since 1901 between HR and both R and RBI was 121 by Kiki Cuyler in 1930 with 13 HR, 155 Runs and 134 RBI. Babe Ruth had the largest number of HR in such a season with 59 HR, 177 Runs and 171 RBI in 1921. Lou Gehrig did this 8 times followed by Ruth and Splinter at 3 times each. Al Simmons, Bill Terry, Charlie Gehringer, Home Run Baker and Rajah did it twice each, with Hornsby the only player to do this for two different teams.
Sherry Magee (1910), Pie Traynor (1925) and Luke Appling (1936) all did this while hitting just 6 HR. Lave Cross, with 90 Runs and 108 RBI in 1902, is the only player with 100+ RBI without hitting a home run. Since 1901, players have scored 100+ runs 24 times without hitting a home run, most recently by Ozzie Smith with 104 Runs and 75 RBI in 1987. Eddie Collins scored 137 runs in 1912 to go with his 64 RBI. No other homer-less player has scored more than 118 times.
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Doug, would we find this feat expressed in their “Standard Batting Stats”?
The feat is dislayed on standard stat lines, on B-R or on the back of most baseball cards.
Must have something to do with an OBP of .400 or higher.
Doug, is it a single-season feat?
It is a single season, not related to OBP.
Does it have something to do with doubles?
Not related to doubles.
The Cirillo season that sticks out to me is 2000 – the 110+ runs and 110+ RBI stick out like a sore thumb.
When I saw Gus Suhr on the list, I thought it would be something simple like 115 RBI with less than 12 HR. But I see Beau Bell had 11/123 for the 1936 St. Loius Browns. But it has to be close to that.
This is a toughie. Seven of the 10 guys had a season of at least 110 RBI and less than 20 HRs, but DiMaggio and Williams never did, and Gehrig didn’t do that from 1935 on.
That was my first though, too. Then I remembered that Tommy Herr had 8HR/110 RBI in 1985, and Molitor had 9 HR/113 RBI in 1996.
This is probably silly, but…110 singles, 110 runs, and 110 RBI?
The PI shows 101 seasons since 1935 that meet just those 3 criteria.
Grandyman, not related to singles.
“Hint: from 1920 to 1934, this feat was accomplished a total of 30 times by 20 different players.”
Doesn’t that just scream “it was done once each by 19 guys, and 11 times by Babe Ruth?
I think the opposite – I think it is more towards a lower HR (or extra base hit) guy, otherwise you probably end up with Pujols and Frank Thomas types on the list.
John, Ruth did it more than once, as did a few others.
I know this is a dead end, but I’ll put it out there:
110+ Runs, 110+ RBI, and RBI more than 5.4 times HRs reaps 9 of the 10 guys, plus Tommy Davis and Minnie Minoso.
Now, if I could just manage to trade those two for Gehrig….
Correction: Those criteria find just 8 of 10. Need to swap T.Davis and Minoso for T.Williams and Gehrig.
Only if Ted Williams and Lou Gehrig were on the Marlins could you pull off that deal
Runs + RBI – HR = greater than 200?
Nevermind. Found two matching seasons for that set of criteria that aren’t listed here.
I’m thinking some combination of
High batting average (> .320, or .325) and fewer than 200 hits
…is part of it. But even there, I’m getting a fair number of Frank Thomas’s and Albert Pujols’s.
But Suhr never hit .320. His highest AVG was .318 in limited play – his best in full time play was .312.
Dunno the answer (though those 110/110 in 2000 seem to be part of it).
But check out the Coors effect for Cirillo that year:
.403 .472 .607 1.078
.239 .299 .329 .628
!
All of them had at least one season with R and RBI >= 110 and 2B+3B > HR.
Are they the only players to have 100 more RBI than HR and 100 more R than HR? For instance, Cirillo had 11 HR in 2000 and 111 runs and 115 RBI, so he had 100 more runs than HR and 104 more RBI than HRs.
Ted Williams did this in 1942 and 1949. Gehrig did this in 1936 and 1937. Medwick did this in 1935. Ruth did this in 1921, 1930, and 1931
This cuts out Tommmy Davis’ 1962 and Minoso’s 1954 which is what I am guessing was popping up on JA’s list. It gets rid of Molitor’s 1993, and it removes all the Mantle/Thomas/Pujols type seasons.
I don’t know how to do this search in the PI though, which is why I’m not certain if it is correct.
You are correct, Artie Z.
Well done.
The Ruth hint, which initially had me perplexed, turned out to be a huge help. I was looking at the wrong Gehrig seasons (1935 and 1938) before that hint because he had low (well, low for him) HR totals.
Artie Z: Here’s how to do a PI search.
Select Season Finders Player Batting
Select Single Seasons Totals
Select 1936-2012
Select Choose a Stat R => 100
Select Choose a Stat RBI => 100
You can sort by anything
Click on Get Report
Copy and paste all result pages onto an Excel spreadsheet.
Add a column which calculates R – HR and another one that calculates RBI – HR. Using the =IF(…) function sort out all players with a difference of 100+ for both of those columns. Or you can do a visual scan if you don’t know how to use the =IF(..) function.
Correction: Select 1935-2012
Great job, Artie Z, and great quiz, Doug!
FWIW, it would also work for “99 more” on both ends.
“98 more” of both would bring in just two more, Goose Goslin and Earl Averill, both in 1936.
What a banner year that was for this sort of thing. Of the 13 seasons that met the quiz criteria, 5 were in 1936.
Artie, I think you’re right that it can’t be tested with the P-I alone. Once I saw your answer, it sounded right, and here’s how I confirmed it:
First, in order to minimize the number of “100/100″ seasons I would have to copy into Excel, I determined a minimum ratio of Runs/HRs, as follows:
- Found all 50-HR season since 1935 and eyeball-checked whether any came with 100 more runs than HRs. No such season qualified.
- Since each target season has no more than 49 HRs, it must have a Runs to HRs ratio of at least 149/49, or 3.0408.
Then I searched since 1935 for seasons of 100+ Runs and RBI, and Runs greater than 3.04 times HRs. There are 351 such seasons, which I copied and pasted into Excel. Then I used an “if” test to highlight those where both R-HR and RBI-HR were at least 100. And saw that you were right.
John A: I prepared my post #32 without being aware of your post #31.
Ah good quiz. I’m surprised that Paul Molitor, Tom Herr, and Michael Young all failed to make the list.
Molitor was at 104 RBI-HR in 1996, but just 90 R-HR.
Follow-up quiz.
A year after Cirillo’s feat, what player also became the first and only hitter since 1949 with a related seasonal feat, joining these 10 other players?
Babe Ruth
Lou Gehrig
Chuck Klein
Rogers Hornsby
Al Simmons
Joe DiMaggio
Jimmie Foxx
Ted Williams
Hack Wilson
Hank Greenberg
I am going to assume the player in question is Barry Lamar Bonds?
That would not be a valid assumption.
How about Sammy Sosa joining them with 141+ RBI, 141+ R and at least one triple.
And if that’s not right how about 140+ R, 140+ RBI, BA = .315+ and SLG = .600+.
without checking I say it might be + 400 TBs? + 140 140?
Ouch, not that either, Greenberg “only ” had 380, now I gotta fly will check later
Is it runs scored and RBI > 145?
ooops Greenberg never did it but I was thinking Sosa
or is it runs & RBI >144?
I don’t know if Doug’s around to officiate right now, but there is a set of criteria simpler than anything mentioned yet which produces the exact players Doug listed.
PP almost has it in #39 and #41. Involves Runs & RBI and Sammy Sosa.
R + RBI greater than 300.
Nope, that’s not it.
#49
I’m going crazy here, that might be it
You’ve got it, Richard. These players, plus Sammy Sosa, are the 300 club, with one or more seasons of Runs and RBI totaling 300 or more. Lou Gehrig in 1931 is the only player still at 300 after subtracting the double-counted HRs. Here’s the list.
A-Rod almost joined this club in 2007 with a 299 total (143 Runs & 156 RBI).
Doug, your chart inverts HR and RBI for Hank Greenberg’s 1937 season.
Thanks, Mike. I’ve fixed it.
For those of you who wish to determine the list of players with R + RBI greater than 300 using the Play Index. The most runs scored in a season is 177 and the most RBI in a season is 191. To achieve a total of 300 a player must have at least 109 R and 123 RBI in a season. Run the PI with R greater than 109 and RBI greater than 123. There will be 212 players on the list. Copy and paste into an Excel spreadsheet and create a column adding R and RBI totals. Then sort in descending order.