Comments on: The Mr. Journeyman Derby

By: Doug

Doug — Wed, 13 Feb 2013 07:52:16 +0000

Since you mentioned it, mosc, Vizquel is indeed the all-time leader in games started at shortstop. But his mantle is likely short-lived – assuming Jeter is back in form this year, Derek should pass Omar sometime in July.

By: mosc

mosc — Mon, 11 Feb 2013 19:11:35 +0000

Top 10 records in baseball (in some rough order):

1) career WAR. No, that’s a joke.

1) Career HR
2) Single Season HR
3) Career Hits
4) Career Wins
5) Career Steals
6) Hit streak
7) Consecutive games played
8) Career batting average
9) Career Strikeouts
10) Career Saves

Other notables, career and single season Runs, RBI’s, single season hits, consecutive saves converted, Total innings pitched.

Like it or not, Strikeouts are on there. Ryan’s single season strikeout record is probably not too far down that list either.

By: mosc

mosc — Mon, 11 Feb 2013 19:04:36 +0000

To make a similar case for Vizquel, you’d have to make him the all time leader at assists or games played, or give him the ironman record. Ryan holds the strikeout record which like it or not is one of the few people really care about. Ryan hit milestones, he also set records.

By: Doug

Doug — Fri, 08 Feb 2013 22:09:39 +0000

So, in Ryan’s case,
HoF and popular stature as all-time great =
a) Reaching a career milestone (300 wins) +
b) pitching forever at above average level (but not way above average) +
c) all-time great at one specific and highly visible aspect of play (strikeouts).

Whereas, in contrast, assuming that Omar Vizquel had reached 3000 hits and assuming he met (b) instead of being average (at best) or below average, he still would not have been popularly regarded as an all-time great because he did not have a (c).

Incidentally, the last two players Vizquel passed on the Hits list were a couple of all-time greats, Babe Ruth and Mel Ott. So, Vizquel stands 40th on the list, where he will stay at least until 2014 or 2015 (passed by Ichiro) or, if not Ichiro, then Pujols in 2016 or 2017.

By: birtelcom

birtelcom — Fri, 08 Feb 2013 20:56:39 +0000

I guess, mosc, that I’m not sure what about Ryan makes him more “valuable” in your estimation than pitchers who are less famous but who, the numbers suggest, were more successful in preventing opponent runs from being scored (say Mike Mussina, or Robin Roberts or Bert Blyleven). If it’s the extreme numbers of Ks, no-hitters and seasons pitched, well, those are just stats, too, aren’t they, the value of which presumably derives again from the extent to which they help prevent opponents from scoring runs. And if not stat-driven at all than what is it? Ryan’s charisma, compared to Mussina or Roberts or Blyleven? Personally, as a blue state city boy myself, the whole cowboy/Texas/red state image Ryan has going for him doesn’t do a thing for me. I guess I’m still at a loss as to what attributes (unrelated to preventing opponents runs) that Ryan had that others did not that somehow for you jump him ahead of those who did a better job preventing opponent runs. He was certainly a more memorable pitcher than, say, Blyleven or Mussina, but more “valuable”? I don’t really get it.