Quiz – Dream Pitching Staff

48 Replies

In this quiz, I’m presenting the core of a dream pitching staff. The reason I’ve selected these seven pitchers is that they alone have distinguished themselves among all pitchers since 1961 (min. 1000 IP in that period) in a certain, two-part career accomplishment.

What is this career accomplishment that separates these pitchers from all others?

Rk	Player
1	Doug Jones
2	Pedro Martinez
3	Dennis Eckersley
4	Cole Hamels
5	Mariano Rivera
6	Fergie Jenkins
7	Curt Schilling

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 3/2/2013.

Hint: both parts of the quiz answer involve traditional pitching statistics

It seems I have stumped our esteemed panel. As you quickly noted the above pitchers were noteworthy for both their strikeouts and their control. But, the characteristic that distinguishes them from their brethren is that, since 1961, only these pitchers (min. 1000 IP) have career SO/9 and BB/9 that are both more than 1 better (i.e. more than 1 strikeout, and more than 1 walk) than the MLB average marks during the years of their careers.

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Chris C

11 years ago

Part of it must be a 3-1 k-bb ratio or something similar.

Doug

11 years ago

On the right track, Chris.

Insert Name Here

11 years ago

K/BB > 3, WHIP < 1.25?

Chris C

11 years ago

Reply to Insert Name Here

You at least still get Halliday with that. Can’t figure out how to remove him.

bstar

11 years ago

Reply to Chris C

Actually I get 24 pitchers with a K/BB > 3.2 and WHIP < 1.25

Dr. Doom

11 years ago

Maybe it treats Ks and BBs separately:

SO/9 >= 6.4
BB/9 = 115
and/or WHIP <=1.25

Dr. Doom

11 years ago

Reply to Dr. Doom

Weird…

Some of my post got deleted. Let’s try again:

Maybe it treats Ks and BBs separately:

SO/9 >= 6.4
BB/9 = 115
and/or WHIP <=1.25

Dr. Doom

11 years ago

Reply to Dr. Doom

Oh my goodness! It happened again. Okay, I’m not including any brackets this time, because I think that’s what messed it up. Last time I’m trying this…

Maybe it treats Ks and BBs separately:

SO/9 (greater than or equal to) 6.4
BB/9 (less than or equal to) 2.4

It could also include an ERA+ greater than or equal to 115
and/or a WHIP (less than or equal to) 1.25

bstar

11 years ago

Reply to Dr. Doom

Try typing out greater than or equal to. WordPress doesn’t like when you use the symbols together.

Doug

11 years ago

Reply to Dr. Doom

Too complicated, Dr Doom.

Only involves BB/9 and SO/9.

Brooklyn Mick

11 years ago

I’m gonna guess it’s BB/9>=2 and SO/BB>=3.2

Brooklyn Mick

11 years ago

Reply to Brooklyn Mick

Can’t be that. Others have done it.

bstar

11 years ago

So/BB > 3.2, and at least one season with SO/BB less than 2.

Brooklyn Mick

11 years ago

Reply to bstar

bstar, I think Cliff Lee falls into that group…just barely.

Author

Doug

11 years ago

Reply to bstar

Not sure what IP qualification you were intending for that one (or more) season(s) below 2 SO/BB.

But, seems that only Eck and Jenkins from our list fit the bill (plus several others not on the list).

Brooklyn Mick

11 years ago

Is the career accomplishment tied to a seasonal one? Or shall we just focus on the career totals line?

Author

Doug

11 years ago

Reply to Brooklyn Mick

Only career accomplishments.

Author

Doug

11 years ago

Sorry I’ve been away. My ISP was down.

bstar and Brooklyn Mick are correct about BB and SO. But the comparison that defines this group is to something that is not a constant.

Insert Name Here

11 years ago

Reply to Doug

SO/BB > 1.5 x BB/9

Author

Doug

11 years ago

Reply to Insert Name Here

That’s not it (there are 30 possible pitchers who match that criteria).

Voomo Zanzibar

11 years ago

It doesn’t have anything to do with the post-season (poor Ferguson).

Author

Doug

11 years ago

If you’re stumped by this quiz, try guessing this one.

Since 1876, who are the only two pitchers (min. 1000 IP) with a career .600 W/L% and SO/BB >= 3, and who did NOT play in the 21st century?

Guesses only – no looking it up.

11 years ago

Reply to Doug

Is Koufax one of them?

Richard Chester

11 years ago

Reply to Doug

Is Lefty Grove one of them?

bstar

11 years ago

Reply to Doug

Gotta be a strikeout guy–Rube Waddell?

no statistician but

11 years ago

Reply to Doug

1000 innings isn’t that much, so I’d say it could be a pair of relievers. Otherwise I’d guess Pete Alexander and Christy Mathewson, but that seems too pat for for a Doug question. Can’t be Koufax. He walked too many early on. Waddell and Grove too, I’d venture.

no statistician but

11 years ago

Reply to no statistician but

Since I’ve opted out, I looked up the answer, and no, they aren’t relievers.

bstar

11 years ago

Reply to no statistician but

I looked up the wrong guesses, and Koufax just misses (a SO/BB of 2.93). Waddell was close too on SO/BB but didn’t have the winning % aspect anyway.

Doug

11 years ago

Reply to Doug

Not any of the named pitchers.

bstar

11 years ago

Reply to Doug

Are they both Hall of Famers?

Author

Doug

11 years ago

Reply to bstar

Yes, both HOFers.

GrandyMan

11 years ago

Reply to Doug

Schilling and Martinez?

GrandyMan

11 years ago

Reply to GrandyMan

Whoops. Totally whiffed on the 21st century part.

Mike L

11 years ago

Reply to Doug

Guidry was close, but falls short. It’s not going to be a pure reliever, I think, because of the WP.

Hartvig

11 years ago

Reply to Doug

Since we know they’re both Hall of Famers I’ll go with Dizzy & Dazzy.

Dean & Vance that is.

Hartvig

11 years ago

Reply to Hartvig

And wrong on both counts I’d be.

Paul E

11 years ago

Reply to Doug

Doug: I’ve been out of town…way out of town. And , if this thread isn’t dead, I’m sure it has long expired. I errantly guessed Jenkins nad Seaver – and then looked it up. The gents you’re refering to are probably Mathewson and Marichal, however, if you add Mathewson’s 1900 season as a 19 year old that the PI does not include, he falls below 3.00 ratio of K/BB thanks to a 15/20 season that brings his 20th century career totals to 2507/848 or 2.96 …… So, now we have further evidence of Juan “Manito” Marichal as the greatest NL… Read more »

Author

Doug

11 years ago

Not sure when I’ll be able to get back to this today, so here are the quiz answers. The identified pitchers are the only ones since 1961 with both of: – career SO/9 more than 1 strikeout better than MLB average SO/9 – career BB/9 more than 1 walk better than MLB average BB/9 In both of above MLB average is average during years of each player’s career. The other quiz was about pitchers with a career .600 W-L% and SO/BB > 3. The only pitchers since 1876 to do this in 1000+ IP, and who did not pitch in… Read more »

Paul E

11 years ago

Reply to Doug

Doug:
Sorry, I’m a dope in #44. Monte Ward it is….

Editor

John Autin

11 years ago

An interesting sidebar on Schilling is his control upgrade from good to fantastic, which happened virtually overnight when he was dealt from Philly to Arizona. In 8-1/2 years with the Phils, Schilling averaged 2.3 BB/9, never less than 2.0 in a season. For his career after that trade, he averaged 1.3 BB/9. At the time of the trade in 2000, his season mark was 2.6 BB/9. In 13 remaining starts, he averaged 1.2 BB/9 (no more than 2 in a game). It would be hard to find any subject on which Schill has not commented at length, so does anyone… Read more »

Mike L

11 years ago

Reply to John Autin

John A, according to the Arizona Journal, State Geologist Lee Allison says the state has helium fields in northeastern Arizona, including the rich deposits in and surrounding the Holbrook Basin. No doubt Schilling filled up even further with gas when he was out there. Helps his wind and his arm slot.

bstar

11 years ago

Reply to John Autin

Well, that’s interesting because Kevbo Brown had a similar change when he came over to the NL after two cups of coffee and seven seasons in the AL. In the AL from 1986-1995, Brown averaged 3.0 BB/9, had a SO/BB of 1.80, and posted an ERA+ of 111. In his career after that (most of it in the NL), he averaged 2.1 BB/9, his SO/BB went up to 3.62, and his ERA+ soared to a 144 ERA+ despite his last two years with the Yanks where he posted an 89 ERA+. Makes you wonder a bit what prompted this change… Read more »

11 years ago

Reply to bstar

We’ve spilled a lot of words on Larry Walker’s home/road splits. Schilling’s are basically the opposite. I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone whose home/road splits are so similar. Here are how batters hit against him on the road and at home:

Home: .243/.286/.386
Road: .244/.285/.388

Home ERA is 3.43; Road is 3.49.

Editor

John Autin

11 years ago

Reply to Ed

Belated reply to Ed re: Schilling’s home/road splits:

Out of 170 pitchers with at least 2,500 IP in the split-searchable era, Schilling is 1 of 4 whose OPS at home was the same as his overall mark, joined by Lefty Grove, George Uhle and Jack Morris. Three others were within .001.

Surprisingly, though, 29 of those pitchers had home BA within .001 of their total BA.

11 years ago

Reply to John Autin

Thanks John! I’m surprised that it’s “somewhat” common.

Paul E

11 years ago

Reply to bstar

bstar:
Now we have further evidence that PED’s actually ENHANCE PERFORMANCE…didn’t Brown’s name show up somewhere in some sort of report regarding the use of steroids?
Also, he was a pretty miserable guy with the press – perhaps attributable to the rage side of strategic ‘roid utilization. At least Manny Ramirez had the good sense to take Estrogen and fertitlity drugs in his regimen.
Say what you want about Schilling (and I can’t stand the guy) being a total narcissistic hand-job, but, at least he was anti-steroids (in his public stance).

BryanM

11 years ago

I beleive he developed a sign for the home plate umpire where he would fake going for the rosin bag, but actually touch his sock . Touching the sock was a signal to the umpire that the next pitch was to be called a strike. Sadly, he over used this device, once even using it against Doug Glanville of the Phillies, who swung at everything he could reach. As a result ,he developed a hyper-sensitive skin condition in his ankle, which led to tragic consequences later in in his career.

Abbott

11 years ago

This has nothing to do with this thread, but I thought I’d share it anyway. I’ve purchased GameDay Audio on MLB.com every year for many many years. It’s great, and a bargain at 20 bucks. I live 40 miles north of Oakland, and since the A’s switched to FM, I can’t get them on the radio, so I listen to them on the computer. Recently purchased an iPad, and was thrilled to find out that if you purchase GameDay Audio, you can use the same subscription on your computer or your iPad. Great! So I tried listening to a game… Read more »