Quiz – Dream Pitching Staff
In this quiz, I’m presenting the core of a dream pitching staff. The reason I’ve selected these seven pitchers is that they alone have distinguished themselves among all pitchers since 1961 (min. 1000 IP in that period) in a certain, two-part career accomplishment.
What is this career accomplishment that separates these pitchers from all others?
| Rk | Player |
|---|---|
| 1 | Doug Jones |
| 2 | Pedro Martinez |
| 3 | Dennis Eckersley |
| 4 | Cole Hamels |
| 5 | Mariano Rivera |
| 6 | Fergie Jenkins |
| 7 | Curt Schilling |
Hint: both parts of the quiz answer involve traditional pitching statistics
It seems I have stumped our esteemed panel. As you quickly noted the above pitchers were noteworthy for both their strikeouts and their control. But, the characteristic that distinguishes them from their brethren is that, since 1961, only these pitchers (min. 1000 IP) have career SO/9 and BB/9 that are both more than 1 better (i.e. more than 1 strikeout, and more than 1 walk) than the MLB average marks during the years of their careers.
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Part of it must be a 3-1 k-bb ratio or something similar.
On the right track, Chris.
K/BB > 3, WHIP < 1.25?
You at least still get Halliday with that. Can’t figure out how to remove him.
Actually I get 24 pitchers with a K/BB > 3.2 and WHIP < 1.25
Maybe it treats Ks and BBs separately:
SO/9 >= 6.4
BB/9 = 115
and/or WHIP <=1.25
Weird…
Some of my post got deleted. Let’s try again:
Maybe it treats Ks and BBs separately:
SO/9 >= 6.4
BB/9 = 115
and/or WHIP <=1.25
Oh my goodness! It happened again. Okay, I’m not including any brackets this time, because I think that’s what messed it up. Last time I’m trying this…
Maybe it treats Ks and BBs separately:
SO/9 (greater than or equal to) 6.4
BB/9 (less than or equal to) 2.4
It could also include an ERA+ greater than or equal to 115
and/or a WHIP (less than or equal to) 1.25
Try typing out greater than or equal to. WordPress doesn’t like when you use the symbols together.
Too complicated, Dr Doom.
Only involves BB/9 and SO/9.
I’m gonna guess it’s BB/9>=2 and SO/BB>=3.2
Can’t be that. Others have done it.
So/BB > 3.2, and at least one season with SO/BB less than 2.
bstar, I think Cliff Lee falls into that group…just barely.
Not sure what IP qualification you were intending for that one (or more) season(s) below 2 SO/BB.
But, seems that only Eck and Jenkins from our list fit the bill (plus several others not on the list).
Is the career accomplishment tied to a seasonal one? Or shall we just focus on the career totals line?
Only career accomplishments.
Sorry I’ve been away. My ISP was down.
bstar and Brooklyn Mick are correct about BB and SO. But the comparison that defines this group is to something that is not a constant.
SO/BB > 1.5 x BB/9
That’s not it (there are 30 possible pitchers who match that criteria).
It doesn’t have anything to do with the post-season (poor Ferguson).
If you’re stumped by this quiz, try guessing this one.
Since 1876, who are the only two pitchers (min. 1000 IP) with a career .600 W/L% and SO/BB >= 3, and who did NOT play in the 21st century?
Guesses only – no looking it up.
Is Koufax one of them?
Is Lefty Grove one of them?
Gotta be a strikeout guy–Rube Waddell?
1000 innings isn’t that much, so I’d say it could be a pair of relievers. Otherwise I’d guess Pete Alexander and Christy Mathewson, but that seems too pat for for a Doug question. Can’t be Koufax. He walked too many early on. Waddell and Grove too, I’d venture.
Since I’ve opted out, I looked up the answer, and no, they aren’t relievers.
I looked up the wrong guesses, and Koufax just misses (a SO/BB of 2.93). Waddell was close too on SO/BB but didn’t have the winning % aspect anyway.
Not any of the named pitchers.
Are they both Hall of Famers?
Yes, both HOFers.
Schilling and Martinez?
Whoops. Totally whiffed on the 21st century part.
Guidry was close, but falls short. It’s not going to be a pure reliever, I think, because of the WP.
Since we know they’re both Hall of Famers I’ll go with Dizzy & Dazzy.
Dean & Vance that is.
And wrong on both counts I’d be.
Doug:
I’ve been out of town…way out of town. And , if this thread isn’t dead, I’m sure it has long expired. I errantly guessed Jenkins nad Seaver – and then looked it up. The gents you’re refering to are probably Mathewson and Marichal, however, if you add Mathewson’s 1900 season as a 19 year old that the PI does not include, he falls below 3.00 ratio of K/BB thanks to a 15/20 season that brings his 20th century career totals to 2507/848 or 2.96 ……
So, now we have further evidence of Juan “Manito” Marichal as the greatest NL hurler of the 1960′s
Not sure when I’ll be able to get back to this today, so here are the quiz answers.
The identified pitchers are the only ones since 1961 with both of:
- career SO/9 more than 1 strikeout better than MLB average SO/9
- career BB/9 more than 1 walk better than MLB average BB/9
In both of above MLB average is average during years of each player’s career.
The other quiz was about pitchers with a career .600 W-L% and SO/BB > 3. The only pitchers since 1876 to do this in 1000+ IP, and who did not pitch in the 21st century, are Monte Ward (1878-84) and Juan Marichal (1960-75).
Doug:
Sorry, I’m a dope in #44. Monte Ward it is….
An interesting sidebar on Schilling is his control upgrade from good to fantastic, which happened virtually overnight when he was dealt from Philly to Arizona.
In 8-1/2 years with the Phils, Schilling averaged 2.3 BB/9, never less than 2.0 in a season. For his career after that trade, he averaged 1.3 BB/9.
At the time of the trade in 2000, his season mark was 2.6 BB/9. In 13 remaining starts, he averaged 1.2 BB/9 (no more than 2 in a game).
It would be hard to find any subject on which Schill has not commented at length, so does anyone remember him talking about any changes he made after being traded from Philly?
John A, according to the Arizona Journal, State Geologist Lee Allison says the state has helium fields in northeastern Arizona, including the rich deposits in and surrounding the Holbrook Basin. No doubt Schilling filled up even further with gas when he was out there. Helps his wind and his arm slot.
Well, that’s interesting because Kevbo Brown had a similar change when he came over to the NL after two cups of coffee and seven seasons in the AL.
In the AL from 1986-1995, Brown averaged 3.0 BB/9, had a SO/BB of 1.80, and posted an ERA+ of 111.
In his career after that (most of it in the NL), he averaged 2.1 BB/9, his SO/BB went up to 3.62, and his ERA+ soared to a 144 ERA+ despite his last two years with the Yanks where he posted an 89 ERA+.
Makes you wonder a bit what prompted this change for Brown.
Schilling’s ERA+ increase wasn’t nearly as severe post-Philly(123 to 134 for the rest of his career).
We’ve spilled a lot of words on Larry Walker’s home/road splits. Schilling’s are basically the opposite. I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone whose home/road splits are so similar. Here are how batters hit against him on the road and at home:
Home: .243/.286/.386
Road: .244/.285/.388
Home ERA is 3.43; Road is 3.49.
Belated reply to Ed re: Schilling’s home/road splits:
Out of 170 pitchers with at least 2,500 IP in the split-searchable era, Schilling is 1 of 4 whose OPS at home was the same as his overall mark, joined by Lefty Grove, George Uhle and Jack Morris. Three others were within .001.
Surprisingly, though, 29 of those pitchers had home BA within .001 of their total BA.
Thanks John! I’m surprised that it’s “somewhat” common.
bstar:
Now we have further evidence that PED’s actually ENHANCE PERFORMANCE…didn’t Brown’s name show up somewhere in some sort of report regarding the use of steroids?
Also, he was a pretty miserable guy with the press – perhaps attributable to the rage side of strategic ‘roid utilization. At least Manny Ramirez had the good sense to take Estrogen and fertitlity drugs in his regimen.
Say what you want about Schilling (and I can’t stand the guy) being a total narcissistic hand-job, but, at least he was anti-steroids (in his public stance).
I beleive he developed a sign for the home plate umpire where he would fake going for the rosin bag, but actually touch his sock . Touching the sock was a signal to the umpire that the next pitch was to be called a strike. Sadly, he over used this device, once even using it against Doug Glanville of the Phillies, who swung at everything he could reach. As a result ,he developed a hyper-sensitive skin condition in his ankle, which led to tragic consequences later in in his career.
This has nothing to do with this thread, but I thought I’d share it anyway.
I’ve purchased GameDay Audio on MLB.com every year for many many years. It’s great, and a bargain at 20 bucks. I live 40 miles north of Oakland, and since the A’s switched to FM, I can’t get them on the radio, so I listen to them on the computer.
Recently purchased an iPad, and was thrilled to find out that if you purchase GameDay Audio, you can use the same subscription on your computer or your iPad. Great! So I tried listening to a game on my iPad, and it said I didn’t have access. I poked around the internet, seeing if anybody had a similar issue or if I was missing something. Couldn’t find anything.
Finally called MLB.com, and they said that if you purchase GameDay Audio on your iPad (same 20 bucks), then you can listen to it on your computer as well. But if you buy it on your computer through MLB.com, then you can’t access it from your iPad. This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, but at least I had my answer.
At least your can purchase GameDay Audio monthly on your iPad, so I many do that so I don’t have to drag my laptop out to the garage. Now I just have to remember to cancel my automatic renewal through MLB.com and purchase GameDay Audio next year on my iPad. Grrr.
Sorry for the unrelated-to-the-thread long boring rant.