Circle of Greats: 1919 Part 1 Balloting

This post is for voting and discussion in the 64th round of balloting for the Circle of Greats (COG).  This round begins to add those players born in 1919.  Rules and lists are after the jump.

Players born in 1919 will be brought on to the COG eligible list over two rounds, split in half based on last names — the top half by alphabetical order this round and the bottom half next round.  This round’s new group joins the holdovers from previous rounds to comprise the full set of players eligible to receive your votes this round.

As usual, the new group of 1919-born players, in order to join the eligible list, must have played at least 10 seasons in the major leagues or generated at least 20 Wins Above Replacement (“WAR”, as calculated by baseball-reference.com, and for this purpose meaning 20 total WAR for everyday players and 20 pitching WAR for pitchers). Monte Irvin is the one player this round who makes it on to the ballot with fewer than 10 seasons in the majors — he accumulated 21.4 WAR in eight seasons in the majors.

Each submitted ballot, if it is to be counted, must include three and only three eligible players.  The one player who appears on the most ballots cast in the round is inducted into the Circle of Greats.  Players who fail to win induction but appear on half or more of the ballots that are cast win four added future rounds of ballot eligibility.  Players who appear on 25% or more of the ballots cast, but less than 50%, earn two added future rounds of ballot eligibility.  Any other player in the top 9 (including ties) in ballot appearances, or who appears on at least 10% of the ballots, wins one additional round of ballot eligibility.

All voting for this round closes at 11:59 PM EDT Saturday, July 19, while changes to previously cast ballots are allowed until 11:59 PM EDT Thursday, July 17.

If you’d like to follow the vote tally, and/or check to make sure I’ve recorded your vote correctly, you can see my ballot-counting spreadsheet for this round here: COG 1919 Round 1 Vote Tally.  I’ll be updating the spreadsheet periodically with the latest votes.  Initially, there is a row in the spreadsheet for every voter who has cast a ballot in any of the past rounds, but new voters are entirely welcome — new voters will be added to the spreadsheet as their ballots are submitted.  Also initially, there is a column for each of the holdover candidates; additional player columns from the new born-in-1919 group will be added to the spreadsheet as votes are cast for them.

Choose your three players from the lists below of eligible players.  The 14 current holdovers are listed in order of the number of future rounds (including this one) through which they are assured eligibility, and alphabetically when the future eligibility number is the same.  The new group of 1919 birth-year guys are listed below in order of the number of seasons each played in the majors, and alphabetically among players with the same number of seasons played.  In total there were 17 players born in 1919 who met the “10 seasons played or 20 WAR” minimum requirement. Nine of those are being added to the eligible list this round (alphabetically from Tommy Byrne to Jerry Priddy).  The eight players further down in the alphabet will be added next round.

Holdovers:
Whitey Ford (eligibility guaranteed for 5 rounds)
Kenny Lofton (eligibility guaranteed for 5 rounds)
Willie McCovey (eligibility guaranteed for 4 rounds)
Craig Biggio (eligibility guaranteed for 3 rounds)
Ryne Sandberg (eligibility guaranteed for 3 rounds)
Minnie Minoso (eligibility guaranteed for 2 rounds)
Roberto Alomar (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Kevin Brown (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Roy Campanella  (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Dennis Eckersley (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Harmon Killebrew (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Ralph Kiner (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Eddie Murray (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Hoyt Wilhelm (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)

Everyday Players (born in 1919, ten or more seasons played in the major leagues or at least 20 WAR):
Billy Cox
Hank Edwards
Jerry Priddy
Johnny Pesky
Monte Irvin

Pitchers (born in 1919, ten or more seasons played in the major leagues or at least 20 WAR):
Tommy Byrne
Fred Hutchinson
Orval Grove
Stubby Overmire

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Voomo Zanzibar
Voomo Zanzibar
9 years ago

Curt Schilling pitched 5 more innings than Kevin Brown.

Cherry picked and non-inclusive similarities:

216 – 146, era+ 127
211 – 144, era+ 127

Mike L
Mike L
9 years ago
Reply to  Voomo Zanzibar

Voomo @1. You left out one other similarity. Both Schilling and Brown had an extraordinary amount of charm.

Voomo Zanzibar
Voomo Zanzibar
9 years ago

PA per WAR:

126.9 … Kiner
135.1 … Monte Irvin
135.4 … Lofton
137.5 … Sandberg
140.8 … Campanella
150.5 … McCovey
153.9 … Minoso
155.7 … Alomar
163.1 … Killebrew
174.0 … Pesky
187.7 … Murray
192.1 … Biggio
236.3 … Hank Edwards
296.6 … Jerry Priddy
408.0 … Billy Cox
___________________

IP per WAR:

45.0 … Wilhelm
52.6 … Eckersley
58.8 … Ford
70.7 … Hutch
125.7 .. Stubby
219.7 .. Byrne
470.9 .. Orval

Voomo Zanzibar
Voomo Zanzibar
9 years ago
Reply to  Voomo Zanzibar

Oops. Started that thought with Kevin Brown and forgot to include him:

45.0 … Wilhelm
47.5 … Brown
52.6 … Eckersley
58.8 … Ford
__________________

Darien
9 years ago

Lofton, Sandberg, and Killebrew

Bix
Bix
9 years ago

McCovey, Eckersley, Kiner

latefortheparty
latefortheparty
9 years ago

Kevin Brown
Ryne Sandberg
Willie McCovey

Hub Kid
Hub Kid
9 years ago

McCovey, Minoso & Lofton

Jeff Harris
Jeff Harris
9 years ago

Lofton, McCovey, Kiner

JEV
JEV
9 years ago

McCovey, Killebrew, Campanella

Steve
Steve
9 years ago

Whitey Ford & Willie McCovey

Chris C
Chris C
9 years ago
Reply to  Steve

Steve, you need to vote for three players or your vote doesn’t get counted.

Steve
Steve
9 years ago
Reply to  Chris C

d’oh left off Killebrew

Chris C
Chris C
9 years ago

Biggio, Sandberg, Eckersley. And a friendly shout out to Johnny Pesky!

Dr. Doom
Dr. Doom
9 years ago

I’m doing something I’ve never felt the need to do before with my vote this round: I’m voting against the statistical method I have used as a guide to my voting. The #3 player on the current ballot, according to my method, is Hal Newhouser. I just can’t vote for him in good conscience. I think he’s a reasonable candidate; I just don’t think he’s quite in the class of the others we see here. I also have Monte Irvin, with some projected stats, being thiiiiiiiiiiis close to making the ballot. But when dealing with projections, I’d rather use the… Read more »

Dr. Doom
Dr. Doom
9 years ago
Reply to  birtelcom

Whew! I just also realized that, besides Newhouser, I still had Richie Ashburn and Larry Doby on my own spreadsheet, too. I guess it’s past time to do some “housecleaning.” Thanks for the note.

brp
brp
9 years ago

Wilhelm
Lofton
Murray

mosc
mosc
9 years ago

Sad not to see any support for Monte Irvin. Comparing to Kiner in particular (who has two votes so far): through age 30: 46.2 vs 0.1 after age 30: 3.1 vs 21.4 I don’t know how to query it but I’m figuring the average 30 or under WAR for players with between 20 and 25 WAR age 31+ is around Kiner’s number of 46. Irvin was a defensive stud. That Certainly would have showed up in the MLB. BBREF says he hit .350 in the negro leagues at age 21, Kiner wasn’t even in the majors until age 23. Kiner… Read more »

David P
David P
9 years ago
Reply to  mosc

Mosc – I found one player who had an age 31-37 career similar to Irvin. Reggie Smith. Smith actually had a bit more WAR in a little less playing time but generally speaking I think the comparison works well. Irvin: 21.3 WAR, 2799 PA Smith: 22.3 WAR, 2638 PA Smith had 42.2 WAR prior to age 31 which isn’t far off your estimate of 46. Smith of course was almost completely ignored in the COG balloting (and in the redemption rounds) despite 64.5 career WAR and 37.4 WAA. So I don’t think it’s surprising that a player who only had… Read more »

Dr. Doom
Dr. Doom
9 years ago
Reply to  mosc

David P. makes a really good point. Reggie Smith’s career, while excellent, didn’t really make a dent in voting. And Irvin probably was a very similar player. (Incidentally, that’s not an insult, though I’m sure some people who undervalue Smith would read it that way.) Additionally, I think saying, “but Irvin’s better than Kiner,” while perhaps true, might be a moot point for a lot of us voters. Irvin was also a better player than, for example, Johnny Pesky. But Pesky and Kiner aren’t SNIFFING my ballot at the moment (Kiner’s #10 on my list, for example, purely statistically based… Read more »

Artie Z.
Artie Z.
9 years ago
Reply to  mosc

mosc – I don’t think the average is that high (46 WAR from age 12-29) for players with between 20-25 WAR from age 30+. There are 92 players who achieved 20-25 WAR from age 30+. Eyeballing the list I think the only players with more than 70 WAR in their careers are Yount and Foxx and Pujols (who’s not really done yet so he likely won’t be in this group). There are some mid-high 60s (Murray, Raines, Alomar, the aforementioned Reggie Smith), but then there’s also guys like Gilliam and Singleton and Randy Velarde. It’s probably more like 30 WAR… Read more »

David P
David P
9 years ago
Reply to  Artie Z.

Artie Z. – One issue though is that most of those players had a lot more PAs than Irvin post age 31. Looking just at those who had 20-25 WAR post age 31 and fewer than 3,000 PAs, you get the following group:

Mathews, Cronin, Heilmann, Gordon, Dickey, Irvin, and Reggie Smith.

Hard to do much with that group since other than Smith and perhaps Heilmann they’re really not good comps for Irvin.

Artie Z.
Artie Z.
9 years ago
Reply to  David P

David – I messed up and did from age 30+ rather than age 31+. Looking from age 31+ (I’m disregarding PAs in this first part mainly because I’m trying to answer mosc’s question): The average WAR before age 31 (not including Irvin, who shows up on the list now because of his age 30 season) is 28.46, and the median is 27.25. It’s still not 46. Keep in mind while the PAs may not be similar, some of those players are losing total WAR during this time because they are putting up negative seasons, so it’s not always increasing. Looking… Read more »

David P
David P
9 years ago
Reply to  Artie Z.

Artie Z – While what you said about players losing WAR is theoretically possible, it doesn’t actually seem to happen very often. I don’t feel like looking through everyone, but I checked 11 players and only one of them (Brady Anderson) had a negative WAR season between ages 31-37.

One thing that benefited Irvin, however, is that he was actually sent down to the minors at age 36. Had he stayed in the majors that year, it likely would have negatively impacted his overall WAR/PA rate since he was having a poor season.

Artie Z.
Artie Z.
9 years ago
Reply to  Artie Z.

I know Reggie Jackson was on one of the lists and he had a negative WAR season at age 37 … and then two more at ages 38 and 41 (I think it was the list from age 31-any age). But all that’s fine, just use the last part with the PA/WAR stats. If one thinks that Irvin would have been in the majors at age 21, the average and median WAR totals before age 31 for those players who began MLB play at age 21 or later are around 28. The most WAR accumulated by anyone on that list,… Read more »

David P
David P
9 years ago
Reply to  Artie Z.

Artie Z.: Several comments: 1) You state: “If one thinks that Irvin would have been in the majors at age 21”. But then you include players who debuted after age 21 in your sample. I don’t see how that makes sense. If the idea is that Irvin might have debuted at age 21, then the sample should include players who debuted at that same age (or perhaps ages 20-22 in order to expand the sample size). 2) Including players who had 10+ WAR from ages 31-37 is going to introduce players who are quite dissimilar from Irvin, even if they… Read more »

Artie Z.
Artie Z.
9 years ago
Reply to  Artie Z.

In response to 1), using only players who started at age 21 puts the average WAR up to 37. For 2), Irvin is still near the bottom of the total WAR list for these players on the rate lists. Yes, some players have 11 WAR – but others have 40+ (Musial is on this list and he had something like 44 WAR from ages 31-37). The idea is to get a range of players who had this value pattern per PA, because as you mention, pruning the list to 11 names doesn’t really tell us much (and most of the… Read more »

Artie Z.
Artie Z.
9 years ago
Reply to  Artie Z.

I figured out how to save a search and do a search within that search. 91 of the 92 players who accumulated 20-25 WAR from age 30+ played before age 30, Monte Irvin being the lone player not on the list. Lowest career WAR before age 30: Socks Seybold, -0.3 Highest career WAR before age 30: Albert Pujols, 73.6 Highest non-Albert WAR before age 30: Jimmie Foxx, 72.2 Median WAR: 19.3, Gilliam and Felipe Alou Average WAR: 23.4 Those numbers include active players on the list (Pujols, Zobrist, Mark Ellis) A dozen players had 45+ WAR before age 30: Pujols,… Read more »

mosc
mosc
9 years ago
Reply to  Artie Z.

Artie, great discussion! I think you’re right on track with all this. It’s hard to say Irvin is a no brainier for sure. His projected WAR like you said is probably right around 55 give or take 15, a big range given so many unknowns seems necessary. Just basing that on the players you’ve listed.

I think Irvin would have been a center fielder in some hypothetical MLB 1940’s career, and probably a pretty darn good one. I like the Beltran comp, and the Reggie Smith comp. Neither would be no brainers but both deserve some discussion.

Abbott
Abbott
9 years ago

Murray, Biggio, McCovey

Doug
Doug
9 years ago

Ford, Lofton, Alomar

David Horwich
David Horwich
9 years ago

Well, this is going to be an interesting round. My guess is that Ford or McCovey will win, but that’s really just a guess. At least no one will be able to grumble about strategic voting this time around…

Dr. Doom
Dr. Doom
9 years ago
Reply to  David Horwich

Might have to throw Kenny Lofton into the mix. He’s running even with Willie McCovey right now. Maybe that won’t last, but a lot of us here view him as a really strong candidate, and that bears itself out so far.

aweb
aweb
9 years ago

Brown, Lofton, Killebrew

Steve
Steve
9 years ago

Ford , McCovey, and Killebrew

Gary Bateman
Gary Bateman
9 years ago

Ford, Alomar, Minoso

RJ
RJ
9 years ago

Lofton, Brown and, uh, Eckersley I guess? I had started to come around on Campanella, but had somehow missed that thee of his last four seasons are a whole lot of nothing. That basically leaves you with his age 26-31 and 33 years, and after that I feel like I have to play a lot of “what iffery” to make him a COGer.

donburgh
donburgh
9 years ago

Biggio, Lofton, Kiner

mo
mo
9 years ago

Ford McCovey Biggio

Doug
Doug
9 years ago

This election’s tidbits. – Billy Cox had consecutive seasons (1949-50) playing 100 games at third base with OPS+ under 75. Who are the only two NL third basemen since to duplicate that feat? – Hank Edwards was one of 5 players active between 1940 and 1955 who had a season with 15 triples while compiling fewer than 50 career three-baggers. Who is the only retired player to do this since then? – Monte Irvin was the only player not named Stan Musial with a .300/.400/.500 slash for 1950-53 (min. 1500 PA). – Jerry Priddy was acquired by the Tigers after… Read more »

Richard Chester
Richard Chester
9 years ago
Reply to  Doug

Tommy Byrne pitched a CG victory over the Dodgers in game 2 of the 1955 WS, making him the only LHP to achieve that feat for that season. He is one of a handful of pitchers to hit a pinch-hit grand slam. Others are Early Wynn, Schoolboy Rowe and Zeb Eaton.

Doug
Editor
9 years ago

Nice additions, Richard.

While no left-hander had a CG win over the Dodgers that year, there were 4 left-handers who defeated the Dodgers, including two starters (Jim Davis, Harvey Haddix) who lasted into the 9th inning. Don Gross had two winning starts against the Dodgers, while Paul LePalme and Jim Davis (again) had relief wins with both completing their games.

brp
brp
9 years ago
Reply to  Doug

For Billy Cox question – Terry Pendleton ’85 and ’86

Doug
Editor
9 years ago
Reply to  brp

That’s correct.

But, I see I missed one. Who is another NL third baseman to do this?

Richard Chester
Richard Chester
9 years ago
Reply to  Doug

Looks like it was Hubie Brooks

brp
brp
9 years ago
Reply to  brp

And the Hank Edwards answer is Gino Cimoli. I’ll leave the rest alone 🙂

Doug
Doug
9 years ago
Reply to  brp

Correct.

Edwards’ contemporaries with a 15-triple season but fewer than 50 for a career were Johnny Barrett, Harry Walker, Pete Reiser and Johnny Lindell.

Dr. Doom
Dr. Doom
9 years ago
Reply to  Doug

The “obvious” one on the Pesky question, at least to me, was Tony Oliva. Alas, he didn’t have three 200-hit seasons. He had two. Plus a 197. And a 190. Argh…

David Horwich
David Horwich
9 years ago
Reply to  Dr. Doom

One of the answers to the Pesky question is Ralph Garr. Joe Jackson had 3 200-hits seasons before age 30 and fewer than 2000 hits, but he also had a 4th 200-hit season after age 30, so I’m not sure if that disqualifies him. Earle Combs had 3 200-hits seasons and fewer than 2000 hits, but his 3rd 200-hit season came at age 30. Jack Tobin had 4 200-hit seasons and fewer than 200 hits, but 2 of those seasons came at ages 30-31. A number of players came close, in addition to Oliva. E.g. Nomar Garciaparra had only one… Read more »

Doug
Doug
9 years ago
Reply to  David Horwich

Garr and Jackson are correct.

There’s one more.

Richard Chester
Richard Chester
9 years ago
Reply to  Doug

Hank Greenberg had 1628 career hits.

Doug
Doug
9 years ago
Reply to  Doug

Right.

So would Greenberg have made it to 2000 if he played on Sunday? Umm … no!

Darien
9 years ago
Reply to  David Horwich

Yeah, Nomar was the “obvious” one for me. Dang rounding.

Richard Chester
Richard Chester
9 years ago
Reply to  Doug

For the Stubby Overmire question was it Adam Eaton, the pitcher. First year WAR = 2.4 lifetime WAR = 2.3, 1178 IP?

Doug
Doug
9 years ago

That’s the one.

Jason Bere is the runner-up at 2.9 WAR.

no statistician but
no statistician but
9 years ago
Reply to  Doug

Fred Hutchinson and Johnny Pesky were two players who definitely suffered in their careers from missing time to WW II, Hutchinson losing 4 years after going 26-7 in 1941 for Buffalo in the IL, Pesky having 205 hits and a .331 BA in 1942 and 208 hits and a .335 BA in 1946, with only Navy service to add to his WAR in between. Jerry Priddy was Phil Rizzuto’s double play compadre at Kansas City in 1939-40 but got stuck behind Joe Gordon upon being elevated to the Yanks in 1941, then was traded to the Senators after Gordon’s 1942… Read more »

Richard Chester
Richard Chester
9 years ago

On July 18, 1947 Hutchinson pitched an 8-0 2-hit shutout against the Yankees to snap their 19 game winning streak, an AL record at the time. In 1946 he struck out just once in 97 PA. In his first 195 PA, spread out over 5 years, he struck out just three times.

Daniel Longmire
Daniel Longmire
9 years ago
Reply to  Doug

Doug, I was sure that Nomar was going to be one of the answers to the Pesky question; he was thisclose to getting there on multiple occasions. I also felt that Mark Buerhle might be the answer to the Orval Grove query, but he only has one season matching those criteria (with three 13-win seasons that do!). Speaking of shortstops and hits, since Game Notes seems to be on hiatus for this week, I just wanted to mention that Derek Jeter had his 1000th multi-hit game on Thursday night against Cleveland. He is only the fourth player to reach that… Read more »

Richard Chester
Richard Chester
9 years ago

Last Monday Jeter received his 31st walk with the bases loaded. That puts him in a tie for third place with Elmer Valo and Joe Morgan in the searchable era, 1938-2014, but data before 1973 is incomplete.. Yaz is first with 39 followed by Dwight Evans with 38.

Most multi-hit games in the searchable era, 1914-2014:
Pete Rose, 1225
Stan Musial, 1059
Hank Aaron, 1046

Others who may well have done it: Cobb, Speaker, Wagner

Richard Chester
Richard Chester
9 years ago

They just showed the stats on the Yankee game. Cobb has 1293 multi-hit games and Speaker has 1059 such games, if I remember the numbers correctly.

Daniel Longmire
Daniel Longmire
9 years ago

Thanks for filling in the blanks on this, Richard.

Doug
Editor
9 years ago

Assuming Richard’s figures for Cobb and Speaker, these are the totals for extra-base hit games before the age of 40.
– Cobb 1211
– Speaker 1047
– Rose 1039
– Jeter 994
– Aaron 983
– Musial 969

Robinson Cano, BTW, reached the 500 game milestone on May 3 against Houston.

Doug
Editor
9 years ago
Reply to  Doug

For the record, Bronson Arroyo is the active pitcher with three 14 win seasons of 200 IP and fewer than 125 strikeouts. No other active pitcher has more than one such season. Rk Age Tm Lg Year W L W-L% SO IP G GS CG SHO BB ERA FIP ERA+ HR 1 28 BOS AL 2005 14 10 .583 100 205.1 35 32 0 0 54 4.51 4.43 101 22 2 33 CIN NL 2010 17 10 .630 121 215.2 33 33 2 0 59 3.88 4.61 105 29 3 36 CIN NL 2013 14 12 .538 124 202.0 32… Read more »

David Horwich
David Horwich
9 years ago
Reply to  Doug

Who’s the last piece of the answer to the Pesky question? (already have Garr and J Jackson)

Doug
Editor
9 years ago
Reply to  David Horwich

It’s Hank Greenberg. Richard Chester identified him at comment 45 above.

Yippeeyappee
Yippeeyappee
9 years ago

Kiner, Killebrew, McCovey

Artie Z.
Artie Z.
9 years ago

Wild and crazy round. Three bubble boys:

Murray, Alomar, Kevin Brown.

Mike HBC
Mike HBC
9 years ago

The greatest Newark Eagle, Monte Irvin
Eck
Kiner

Voomo Zanzibar
Voomo Zanzibar
9 years ago

PA per WAR, up to player’s last 3-WAR year:

Not quite “peak”, but looking at to remove the “hanging on too long and compiling” penalty for guys like Biggio:

104.8 … Kiner
120.0 … McCovey
120.4 … Campanella
124.7 … Minoso
125.8 … Lofton
132.0 … Sandberg
133.7 … Alomar
142.2 … Biggio
146.0 … Killebrew
151.3 … Pesky
160.1 … Murray
____________________

IP per WAR, up until the final

(2) TWO-WAR year for Eckanhoyt
(3) THREE-WAR year for Whitey Brown

44.2 … Wilhelm
46.1 … Brown
48.5 … Eckersley
58.4 … Ford

Voomo Zanzibar
Voomo Zanzibar
9 years ago
Reply to  Voomo Zanzibar

Up to and through each COG pitcher’s last 3-WAR season.

IP Per WAR:

34.9 … Clemens
38.8 … Randy Johnson
43.1 … Mussina (FULL CAREER)
43.7 … Maddux
43.7 … Koufax (FULL CAREER)
43.9 … Gibson
44.4 … Seaver
46.1 … Marichal
48.8 … Blyleven
48.9 … Feller
50.9 … Smoltz
51.0 … Niekro
51.9 … Spahn
53.0 … Fergie
53.1 … Gaylord
54.3 … Carlton
54.3 … Roberts
56.1 … Palmer
56.9 … Glavine
________________

29.9 … Pedro

Kevin Brown is tied with Marichal.

Scary Tuna
Scary Tuna
9 years ago

Killebrew, Kiner, Wilhelm.

BillH
BillH
9 years ago

McCovey, Ford, Murray

with Roberto close behind

Jeff
Jeff
9 years ago

Biggio, Ford, Sandberg.

I’ve decided to place my choices in alphabetical order, but I don’t really prefer one of these three over the others. I think they all deserve it.

Francisco
Francisco
9 years ago

Ralph Kiner, Kevin Brown, Craig Biggio

Steven
Steven
9 years ago

Whitey Ford, Willie McCovey, Hoyt Wilhelm.

David Horwich
David Horwich
9 years ago

The ballot @ 4 has a vote for Kiner that was recorded for Brown.

Richard Chester
Richard Chester
9 years ago

Ford, Kiner, MMcCovey

Arsen
Arsen
9 years ago

Ford, Alomar, McCovey

bells
bells
9 years ago

Here’s the vote according to my methodology. I take four measures of player value as a gauge of how players compare across advanced metrics that value things slightly differently. Then I give them a cumulative rank with all players on the ballot over 50 WAR, adding their ranking of each measure. Here are the measures: WAR – the ‘classic’ way of measuring a player’s value over a player the team could have gotten to replace the player, over that player’s career, to show how ‘good’ that player was. WAA+ – adding the wins above average players (rather than replacement) for… Read more »

Andy
Andy
9 years ago

Biggio, Eckersley, Kevin Brown

Mike G.
Mike G.
9 years ago

Brown, Eckersley, Lofton

PP
PP
9 years ago

McCovey, Eck, Minoso

In ’89 & ’90 Eck gave up 7 walks in 131 innings, 18,29 SO/W, wow

PaulE
PaulE
9 years ago

Alomar, McCovey, Sandberg

David P
David P
9 years ago

McCovey, Lofton, Murray

Dr. Remulak
Dr. Remulak
9 years ago

Biggio, Ford, Campanella.

TJay
TJay
9 years ago

McCovey, Sandberg, Eck.

Luis Gomez
Luis Gomez
9 years ago

Miñoso, Alomar, Kiner.

Phil
9 years ago

Alomar, McCovey, Killebrew.

Voomo Zanzibar
Voomo Zanzibar
9 years ago

Responding to Artie @81 Re: Whitey Witt (Ladislaw Wittkowski) The Yankees liked him enough to buy him for $7,500. They had just made their first World Series, but the 3rd outfielder after Ruth and Meusel was a Vaudevillian platoon of: Elmer Chick Braggo Ping and Chicken Witt was a leadoff hitter, and had batted .315 in ’21 with 100 runs. 17 walks vs 4 So against the Yankees. Yankees leadoff hitters had the lowest team batting average 1-8. And they scored “only” 118 runs in front of Ruth’s 60 home runs. In ’22, Witt led the league in walks, locked… Read more »

Richard Chester
Richard Chester
9 years ago
Reply to  Voomo Zanzibar

Witt was the first Yankee to bat at Yankee Stadium. His name was shortened to Witt by Connie Mack who did not like writing such a long name on the line-up card.

oneblankspace
oneblankspace
9 years ago

you mean Cornelius McGillicuddy?

Richard Chester
Richard Chester
9 years ago

Don’t know where to put this but on today’s Angels-Rangers game it was mentioned that Collin Cowgill of the Angels is only the 58th position player in the ML to throw lefty and bat righty. I did a PI search from 1871 to date and came up with 59. Most games by such a player is Rickey Henderson with 3081. Among those tied for last with 1 game is midget Eddie Gaedel. On the other hand the number of players throwing righty and batting lefty is 1611. Most games played is Yaz with 3308.

Chris C
Chris C
9 years ago

A few years ago there were three members of my town softball team (including me) that threw left and hit right. Maybe it’s something in the local water supply.

Darien
9 years ago
Reply to  birtelcom

I do everything left-handed — except write. I got really tired of dragging my hand across what I’ve just written, so I started writing righty instead.

When my wife and I go golfing with a our friends Gena and Sherman, it’s a wonderful mix — we have a left-handed man, a right-handed man, a left-handed woman, and a right-handed woman. That’s four separate club rentals, and we can’t do a thing about it. 🙂

Chris C
Chris C
9 years ago
Reply to  Darien

You can buy your own clubs. 🙂

Darien
9 years ago
Reply to  Darien

Oh, sure, if I wanted to do it the EASY way. 🙂

It’s on my to-do list eventually, but I just don’t get to play often enough. Also my club rentals are presently free, so that reduces the incentive just a bit. 🙂

Doug
Doug
9 years ago
Reply to  birtelcom

I guess I’m your mirror image, birtelcom.

Completely right-handed but bat and golf (and play hockey) left-handed.

RJ
RJ
9 years ago
Reply to  Doug

While we’re sharing, I’m right-handed for everything but left footed for football (soccer). I once asked my Dad how this curiosity came to pass and he said “I don’t know, you just started kicking it with your left.” Clearly I had some aspirations to be the next Maradona.

oneblankspace
oneblankspace
9 years ago

There was a Hardball Times article http://www.hardballtimes.com/bats-right-throws-left-the-best-players-in-major-league-history/ a few years back about the BRTL; Ryan Ludwick may have moved up the list.

John Cangelosi, who stole 50 bases for the White Sox in 1986, began his professional career BRTL and took up switch hitting in the minors.

The only big leaguer named Bartell threw righthanded.

Richard Chester
Richard Chester
9 years ago

Following up post 87, there have been 8013 position players who threw right-handed, so 20.1% of them batted left-handed.
There have been 1274 position players who threw who threw left-handed, so 4.6% of them bat batted right-handed.

Voomo Zanzibar
Voomo Zanzibar
9 years ago

Chase this…

60+ WAR
Less than 2000 hits:

1513 … Chase Utley
1518 … Jackie Robinson
1626 … Mark McGwire
1772 … Shoeless Joe
1779 … Boudreau
1790 … Bando
1833 … Grich (70.9) – the only one here not in the 60-63 range
1838 … Frank Baker
1933 … Andruw Jones
1949 … Edmonds

PP
PP
9 years ago
Reply to  Voomo Zanzibar

you probably know this but 36% of McGuire’s hits were home runs

gotta be a record

Voomo Zanzibar
Voomo Zanzibar
9 years ago
Reply to  PP

Hits less than 3* homers:

1626 … McGwire
0031 … Mike Olt (current)
0023 … Dave Staton
0015 … Roric Harrison
0011 … Ben Wade
0011 … Ken Tatum
.
.
.
.
0005 … Zelous Wheeler (current)

Voomo Zanzibar
Voomo Zanzibar
9 years ago
Reply to  Voomo Zanzibar

And only one player with more than ONE hit has touched home plate on 100% of his hits:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mcdonke01.shtml

Doug
Doug
9 years ago
Reply to  Voomo Zanzibar

McDonald was at one time or another with the Red Sox, Cardinals, Cubs, Pirates, Orioles, Rangers and Yankees.

But only 8 games in the show, all with the Cards.

PP
PP
9 years ago
Reply to  Voomo Zanzibar

Hah, was thinking oh 1000 games or so, but 3 for 3, not bad

PP
PP
9 years ago
Reply to  Voomo Zanzibar

Even only 28 percent of Kong’s hits were HRs

bstar
9 years ago
Reply to  Voomo Zanzibar

Voomo, check out Gene Tenace.

Barely 1000 hits (1060 to be exact) but 46.8 WAR.

Charlie Keller is the only other player with fewer than 1100 hits and over 40 WAR (1085 hits, 42.9 WAR).

Voomo Zanzibar
Voomo Zanzibar
9 years ago
Reply to  bstar

Also in the less-than 25 hits per WAR club: Ruth Bonds Mays Hornsby T Williams Wagner Gehrig Mantle Schmidt Mathews then… 61.5 … Jackie 61.0 … Utley 46.8 … Tenace 38.4 … Evan Longoria 37.8 … George Davis 25.7 … Mike Trout 13.7 … Josh Donaldson Then mostly pitchers: 11.3 … Bob Lemon 08.2 … Mike Hampton 07.7 … Earl Wilson 07.0 … Frank Fernandez 06.4 … Juan Lagares (CURRENT) 06.2 … Don Larsen 05.3 … John McGraw (since 1901) (28.7 for career) 04.9 … Dontrelle Willis 04.3 … Ken Brett 03.7 … Jack Harshman 03.6 … Blue Moon Odom… Read more »

Kirk
Kirk
9 years ago

Ford, Alomar & Killebrew