Circle of Greats 1965 Results: Hurt’s So Good |

Frank Thomas, The Big Hurt, capped strong showings in each of our COG votes so far with a solid victory, appearing on 52 of 79 ballots cast to earn induction. More on Thomas, and the voting, after the jump.

A few career slash lines:

Mickey Mantle .421 OBP/.557 SLG/.977 OPS
Stan Musial .417 OBP/.559 SLG/.976 OPS
Frank Thomas .419 OBP/.555 SLG/.974 OPS
Joe DiMaggio .398 OBP/.579 SLG/.977 OPS

Only Mantle’s career OPS+ was significantly different than the others — 172 compared to 159 for Musial, 156 for Thomas and 155 for DiMaggio.

In the Circle of Greats voting, no player other than Thomas managed to top the 50% mark this round, though Mike Mussina came close, falling just three votes short — that leaves him with two rounds of eligibility awarded instead of the four he would have won with a 50% showing. Craig Biggio (41%) and Tom Glavine (39%) also each easily earned two rounds of eligibility; the less personally popular Curt Schilling (at least among HHSers) also won two rounds but with not as much room to spare at 31%. John Smoltz and Roberto Alomar were each at the very edge of the 25% mark that would earn them two rounds of eligibility. Smoltz with 20 votes finished just over the 25% mark, and adds two more rounds of eligibility to his collection. Alomar with 19 votes fell just short, and will have to get by with a one-round extension. Larry Walker at 15% survives into the next round as well. Lastly, there was a tight battle for the final carry-over spot between Kenny Lofton and Kevin Brown, but some careful tactical voting ultimately led to a happy tie between them (5 votes each): under the rules that’s as good as a win for both — Lofton and Brown each survive at least one more round.

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Hartvig

11 years ago

I believe it was my vote that created the tie between Lofton and Brown and to be honest I wouldn’t tell you which of the 2 I cast it for to create that tie. Looking at this years ballot I see no chance of them both getting thru again but I do see how it might be possible for at least 1 of them to make it so I’m satisfied with my decision to do that. To be honest I would have been happier if my vote had led to a 2 year extension for Alomar or a 4 year… Read more »

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birtelcom

Reply to Hartvig

Yes, your late vote for Kevin Brown put him into a tie for ninth that no one voting thereafter chose to break. Kevin says to tell you that the check is in the mail.

MikeD

Well, at least Thomas has been removed from my future votes. Mussina and Alomar remain. On to 1964.

mosc

I think awarding the worst DWAR score of all time (not verified. No idea how to check it) to a DH is absurd. I even think he wasn’t as horrible as indicated at first either. I guess I take some comfort in seeing some voter support one of the best hitters of all time independent of incorrect fielding metrics.

Editor

John Autin

Reply to mosc

mosc, FWIW, Gary Sheffield rates far below Thomas in dWAR. Here’s some of the all-time worst dWAR ratings; I don’t know where to find a systematic list, but I believe Sheff is the worst. – G.Sheffield -28.6 – A.Dunn -25.2 – F.Howard -24.1 – F.Thomas -23.3 – Manny -22.5 – G.Luzinski -20.8 I’ll add that the majority of Thomas’s negative dWAR came in his first 8 seasons, when he mostly played 1B. During his first 7 full years, he averaged -1.2 dWAR/162G, whereas after switching to DH he -0.9 dWAR/162G. So, FWIW, the dWAR method agrees with the White Sox,… Read more »

bstar

Reply to John Autin

At -20.2 dWAR, Harold Baines might be next on the list.

Here’s JA’s list plus some other names I found, from a rate perspective(dWAR/150 games):

Adam Dunn -2.20
Frank Howard -1.91
Greg Luzinski -1.71
Gary Sheffield -1.67
Ryan Howard -1.52
Frank Thomas -1.51
Manny Ramirez -1.47
Dante Bichette -1.46
David Ortiz -1.33
Harold Baines -1.07

Simple rounding may have skewed the results a bit on those really close in value, and I’m sure there are other names out there.

Reply to bstar

Danny Tartabull’s upset that no one’s mentioned him yet. Using Bstar’s metric of dWAR/150 games, he comes in second worst of all-time at -2.02.

Reply to Ed

I just found Tartabull, too, Ed. He’s at -18.5 dWAR for his career, while Jeff Burroughs (-19.5/-1.73 per 150) and Matt Stairs (-17.3/ -1.37 per 150) deserve mention also.

Here’s an odd Tartabull factoids: He had 5 seasons of 100 or more RBIs, but never topped 102 RBIs.