Circle of Greats 1958 Ballot, Part 1

This post is for voting and discussion in the eleventh round of balloting for the Circle of Greats. This round, and the next round, add players born in 1958. Rules and lists are after the jump.

41 players were born in 1958 and played in at least ten seasons of major league baseball. 20 of those (players with last names beginning A through H) will be added as eligible this round. The other 21 players in the born-in-1958 group will be added next round. I expect such two-part birth year introductions to be held every three birth-years or so. The other, intervening birth years will be handled the same as the ones we’ve done up till now — bringing in all the 10-year guys within that birth year at once. Such a blended approach should get us to 112 inductees before we get too far back into the ancient history of the major leagues. We’ll do a separate wing of the Circle of Greats for those guys from really way back in history.

As always, each ballot cast must include three and only three eligible players. The one player who appears on the most ballots cast in the round is inducted into the Circle of Greats.  Players who fail to win induction but appear on half or more of the ballots that are cast win four future rounds of ballot eligibility. Players who appear on 25% or more of the ballots, but less than 50%, earn two years of extended eligibility.  Any other player in the top 9 (including ties) in ballot appearances (or who appear on at least 10% of the ballots) wins one additional round of ballot eligibility.

All voting for this round closes at 11:00 PM EST on Sunday, March 3, while changes to previously cast ballots are allowed until 11:00 PM EST Friday, March 1.

If you’d like to follow the vote tally, and/or check to make sure I’ve recorded your vote correctly, you can see my ballot-counting spreadsheet for this round here: 1958-Pt 1 COG Vote Tally . I’ll be updating the spreadsheet periodically with the latest votes. Initially, there is a row for every voter who has cast a ballot in any of the past rounds, but new voters are entirely welcome — new voters will be added to the spreadsheet as their ballots are submitted. Also initially, there is a column for each of the holdover players; additional player columns from the born-in-1958 group will be added as votes are cast for them.

Choose your three players from the lists below of eligible players. The holdovers are listed in order of the number of future rounds (including this one) through which they are assured eligibility, and alphabetically when the future eligibility number is the same. We welcome back Kenny Lofton and Kevin Brown to the list of holdovers, based on their being the top two vote-getters in the redemption round voting this past week. The 1958 birth year guys are listed below in order of the number of seasons they played in the majors, and alphabetically among players with the same number of seasons played.

Holdovers:
John Smoltz (eligibility guaranteed for 7 rounds)
Tom Glavine (eligibility guaranteed for 6 rounds)
Craig Biggio (eligibility guaranteed for 5 rounds)
Tony Gwynn (eligibility guaranteed for 5 rounds)
Barry Larkin (eligibility guaranteed for 5 rounds)
Larry Walker (eligibility guaranteed for 4 rounds)
Roberto Alomar (eligibility guaranteed for 3 rounds)
Tim Raines (eligibility guaranteed for 2 rounds)
Ryne Sandberg (eligibility guaranteed for 2 rounds)
Kevin Brown (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Kenny Lofton(eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Edgar Martinez (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)

Everyday Players (born in 1958, ten or more seasons played in the major leagues, last name starts with letters A through H):
Rickey Henderson
Julio Franco
Gary Gaetti
Wade Boggs
Scott Fletcher
Dave Henderson
Randy Bush
Bill Doran
Von Hayes
Marty Barrett
Carmelo Castillo

Pitchers (born in 1958, ten or more seasons played in the major leagues, last name starts with letters A through H):
Orel Hershiser
Bruce Hurst
Juan Agosto
Atlee Hammaker
Steve Howe
Neil Allen
Lee Guetterman
Jim Acker
Steve Crawford

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214 Comments on "Circle of Greats 1958 Ballot, Part 1"

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Alex Putterman
Guest

Henderson, Raines, Glavine

Nadig
Guest

Boggs, Walker, Rickey Henderson.

Doug
Guest

Rickey Henderson, Boggs, Walker

David Horwich
Guest

Henderson, Boggs, Larkin

Joel
Guest

Henderson, Boggs, Larkin

RJ
Guest

Wade Boggs and Tony Gwynn both played exactly 2440 games and have an OPS+ of within 1 of each other.

Voomo Zanzibar
Guest

It seems that most of the good 1958 players are A-H

Rickey
Boggs
Gaetti
Hershiser
Franco

Willie McGee and Alan Trammell get what amounts to a bonus round.

Voomo Zanzibar
Guest

Did you know that Gary Gaetti has the 3rd most games played at 3B?

Brooks
Nettles
GG
Boggs

by rField:

293 Brooks
140 Nettles
131 Gaetti
104 Boggs

bstar
Guest

No, I wouldn’t have guessed that at all about Gaetti. In fact, when I first read your post, I thought, “wait, wasn’t Gaetti a shortstop?”. I get my Gary Gaetti’s and my Greg Gagne’s mixed up sometimes.

OK, wow, trying to be alliterative and find some other guys with GG initials other than Goose Goslin, I encountered this guy, the artist formerly known as Gavern: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gaver01.shtml

I would have guessed Buddy Bell after Brooks. Ah, Bell is fifth on the list for games, and has 174 Rfield.

RJ
Guest

Bringing in another conversation from somewhere on HHS we have the catchy Gene Green, catcher, right fielder: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/greenge01.shtml

Voomo Zanzibar
Guest

Well, Greg Goossen immediately comes to mind, Seattle Pilot vunderkend.
Of course, there’s that other Goose, too, but he was a Richard.

Daniel Longmire
Guest

Those boxscores from the 80s Twins always messed me up as a kid. Gaetti, Gagne and Gladden made it hard to tell who was who.

Voomo Zanzibar
Guest

A tale of two pitchers:

23-8, 6.9 WAR
15-15, 6.8 WAR

The two pitchers are Orel Hershiser
1988 and
1989

Those six shutouts in a row to close out ’88… well, Orel got the other end of the stick in ’89.
On August 8th he was 14-8, 2.40

Over his next 9 starts he was 0-7… with a 2.32 era

It took an eleven inning effort on October 1st to scratch back to 500.
Orel got pinch hit for to open the 12th, but the Superbas brought it home:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/ATL/ATL198910010.shtml

Ed
Guest
Hershiser lost three of those games by a 1-0 score. One of the losses was to Frank Viola. The other two were to Andy Benes who was a rookie at the time. The first one was Benes’ 6th career start, the second one was his 9th. Not a bad way to start your career, outdueling the reigning Cy Young winner twice. During that 0-7 streak, Hershiser also took a no decision in this amazing game: http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/MON/MON198908230.shtml The first run wasn’t scored until the 22nd inning! Is that a record? Two different pitchers (Rich Thompson and John Wetteland) each threw 6… Read more »
Ed
Guest

In response to my own question, this game between the Mets and Astros is the longest before the first run scored.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/HOU/HOU196804150.shtml

Jim Ray turned in one of the all-time great relief appearances: 7 IPs, 2 hits, 1 walk, 11 Ks.

The game above between the Expos and the Dodgers is the second longest before the first run scored. The Expos did shatter the record of most batters faced without issuing a walk. 81 batters faced, no walks. The previous record was “only” 69 batters.

John Autin
Editor

Great find on the Dempsey HR, Ed!

Dempsey caught El Presidente’s MLB debut on Sept. 14, 1976 (the day after Dempsey’s birthday). Martinez fanned the first 3 men he faced and went 5.2 scoreless relief innings for a win. Martinez was apparently the first MLB player born in Nicaragua, so that must have been a proud night for his countrymen.

J.R. Lebert
Guest

Gwynn, Rickey, Raines

cubbies
Guest

gwynn, boggs, henderson

Voomo Zanzibar
Guest
So many ways to go with this vote. I always thought it would be a dream lineup to have RIckey Henderson and Wade Boggs 1-2 Throw a Larry Walker in the 3-hole and you’d have opposing starters developing crippling migraines on game day. Of course, you usually want to build a team up the middle, and we’ve got 4 HOF options around the keystone (Biggio will get there). Can’t go wrong with John Smoltz, Tom Glavine, and Orel Hershiser leading your staff in the playoffs (sorry Kevin Brown). ________________ What I’ve consistently fantasized about, however, is world-class speed in my… Read more »
Nash Bruce
Guest

I love the speed teams too, Voomo. Didn’t Cedeno wind up on that ’85 Cards team as well?

Gootch7
Guest

Ha. I read so quickly through it took some time to sink in…. The ’85 Cards might have been world champs had Denkinger gotten the call right on Orta’s bouncer. As it turns out George Brett’s Royals won their only championship that year.

Hartvig
Guest

While the Kansas City outfield they faced in the ’85 Series may not have had the same speed as the Cardinals it’s hard to imagine their being much if any faster than the ’78 version of Kansas City’s outfield.

Voomo Zanzibar
Guest

Willie Wilson and Amos Otis, sure.
But Al Cowens?

And Tom Poquette & Clint Hurdle started more games in the OF than Wilson.

Hartvig
Guest

Cowens wasn’t as fast as Wilson- but then NObody was as fast as Wilson.

But Cowens could motor. You don’t hit 14 triples hitting out of the #4 or #5 spot if you can’t pick ’em up and put ’em down pretty quick.

Voomo Zanzibar
Guest

Right. Good to know.
And he came in 2nd in the MVP voting that year – the only year he received any votes at all.

Here’s a good article about his career:

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/cooperstown-confidential-thinking-of-al-cowens/

Ed
Guest
A few notes on Cowens: 1) His 2nd place MVP finish was likely fueled by his amazing September/October: .379/.453/.650 with 31 RBIs. It was by far his best month. 2) Cowens was drafted in the 75th round!!! Wonder why he was overlooked? Obviously scouting in 1969 isn’t what it is today, but still. He went to the same high school as Roy White, Reggie Smith, and Don Wilson. All three of them were established major league stars when Cowens was drafted. So you’d think teams would have scouted that high school quite a bit. 3) Cowens never played AAA. Pretty… Read more »
Ed
Guest
That ’69 draft when Cowens was selected in the 75th round is really odd. The whole draft went 90 rounds. But not every team participated in the whole draft. As you go further into the draft, fewer teams participated. For example, only 22 of the 24 teams selected a player in the 30th round. By the 40th round, there were only 13 teams participating. By the 51st round, we were down to 3 teams – the Mets, Expos and Royals. The Mets then dropped out and the Royals and Expos continued picking players until the 76th round. The Expos then… Read more »
Voomo Zanzibar
Guest

Maybe the Pilots didnt have money to draft all those extra players.
They played in a minor league park with obstructed views, they couldnt pay Bouton for $50 worth of Gatorade, and they sold the team in secret to a Milwaukee used car salesman during the world series.

David Horwich
Guest
Out of curiousity, birtelcom – where will the “ancient history” line be drawn? No doubt you’ve done this calculation, but just to lay it out for everyone: If we hold “double election” years every 3rd year (voting in 4 players every 3 years, or 20 players every 15 years) we’ll fill the CoG by birth year 1882, if my figuring is correct. That’d leave out a handful of players with strong credentials, all of whom played the bulk of their careers in the 20th century: Mathewson (b. 1880), Plank (b. 1875), Wagner, & Lajoie (both b. 1874), as well as… Read more »
Bells
Guest
Ooh, 1871! I’m totally into that idea. Also, I like the ‘2-part year’ solution, but I was thinking maybe it would be good to tweak it so that it only happens in ‘stacked’ years (like this year, 1954) so that the ballot doesn’t get whittled down too much (like, if we had split a weak year in half, we’d have no new holdovers and only 7 on the ballot by the next year, which might feel redundant). On the other hand, if those years are coincided with redemption candidates, it might give them more of a fair shake. And I’d… Read more »
Daniel Longmire
Guest

It’s been a while since there are two no-doubt position players in their first year of eligibility. There are no qualms here with Henderson and Boggs’ counting or rate stats. The only issue is which remaining candidate is most worthy, and in the greatest need of bumping forward for another round. In my mind, it’s Raines by a whisker.

Rickey
Boggs
Rock

Sympathy vote for Julio Franco, who along with Cap Anson, dominates the “After 42” section of B-R.

MikeD
Guest

Cap Anson does not approve sharing space with someone named Julio Franco!

Daniel Longmire
Guest

Or, most likely, Omar Vizquel.

Darien
Guest

Henderson, Boggs, and THE ROCK. Holy moley was this round hard to pick three from.

Tom
Guest

Henderson, Martinez, Walker

Nick Pain
Guest

Henderson, Boggs, Larkin

latefortheparty
Guest

Rickey Henderson
Wade Boggs
Larry Walker

koma
Guest

Tom Glavine, Craig Biggio, Rickey Henderson

Jeff Harris
Guest

Henderson, Boggs, Raines

Dr. Doom
Guest

Henderson
Boggs
Walker

Deep ballot. I love it. But the question remains: birtelcom, why do you torture us so?!? Too many great players. I am excited for the double-round in 1958. That should help a bit.

GrandyMan
Guest
1) Henderson, no explanation necessary 2) Boggs, (hopefully) no explanation necessary Before I make my third selection, let’s look at the Actual Value (as determined by a formula I introduced in 1962 and refined in 1959) of the remaining players, since some Redemption Round players are available this time: Glavine 107.1 Walker 104.3 Larkin 98.7 Smoltz 97.0 Brown 95.4 Sandberg 94.5 Lofton 94.5 Martinez 94.4 Gwynn 93.4 Raines 92.9 Alomar 88.8 Biggio 85.5 Five of the top seven have multiple rounds of eligibility remaining. The two that don’t are the two RRers – Brown and Lofton – so I feel… Read more »
mosc
Guest
Gotta vote strategically here to keep these guys on the ballot. Lofton supporters have a tough year to get him through with a clear first ballot winner and several other candidates trying to get 10%. I will not help them. I am afraid of Boggs missing it, though it looks clear he will get 10%. Maybe I can help him get 20. I’m not even comparing him to Gwynn, Larkin, or anybody else just making sure he doesn’t get voted off the Island before he can get some real consideration in the next couple years. This format kind of forces… Read more »
Dr. Remulak
Guest

Henderson, Boggs, Gwynn

brp
Guest

We need a leadoff hitter, so:

Rickey Henderson
Tim Raines
Wade Boggs

The Diamond King
Guest

Henderson, Boggs, Gwynn

Artie Z
Guest

Rickey Henderson, Wade Boggs, and Tim Raines.

Bryan O'Connor
Editor
Prior to this election, we had seen four of the most valuable players ever (by total WAR) come up for election. Bonds, Clemens, Maddux, and Johnson all went into the CoG on their first ballot. Now we have two (Henderson and Boggs) hitting the ballot at the same time. Career Wins Above Average, excluding negative seasons: Henderson 73.7 Boggs 59.2 Walker 48.6 Larkin 45.5 Brown 43.2 Glavine 42.2 Martinez 41.6 Smoltz 40.2 Lofton 39.5 Sandberg 39.1 Alomar 37.3 Raines 37.2 Gwynn 36.8 Biggio 36.7 Hershiser 27.6 I see somewhere between 8 and 14 CoG-caliber players here. I don’t want Kevin… Read more »
Abbott
Guest

Rickey, Boggs, Glavine

Gary Bateman
Guest

Henderson, Alomar, Gwynn

--bill
Guest

Henderson, Boggs, Glavine

Luis Gomez
Guest

Tony Gwynn, Roberto Alomar, Rickey Henderson.

My biggest thrill in baseball, that I witnessed, was Rickey getting his 3000th hit during Tony Gwynn´s last career game. Priceless.

John Autin
Editor
Luis, that’s awesome! You also saw: – one of Juan Pierre’s 17 career home runs; – 2 HRs by rookie Juan Uribe, to finish with his only .300 BA; – a career-high 12 strikeouts and no walks by Colorado’s John Thomson, still a Rockies record for walk-free whiffs; – Todd Helton’s 54th double, the highest runner-up total since the ’30s (Berkman hit 55 doubles that year); – the last game in the brief career of pitcher Brett Jodie, including his 10th HR allowed in 25.1 innings (only the 3rd-worst HR rate among those with 20+ IP); and – you saw… Read more »
Luis Gomez
Guest

I forgot about most of that stuff, but a couple of weeks ago (you know, the baseball-less week between the end of the Caribbean Series and the start of Spring Training), I found an old VHS tape of that game which I left recording back home and I saw it all again. Can´t believe eleven years have come and go since that sunny day in San Diego.

The last series of that season was supposed to be on the road for the Padres, but because of the 9/11 attacks the postponed games were held at the end of the regular season.

bstar
Guest

Interesting that Gwynn’s pinch hitting avg is/was exactly 50 points below his career average.

That gives some weight to the old adage that hitting .250 as a pinch hitter is like hitting .300 as a regular.

Luis Gomez
Guest

That game was also Mike Darr´s last career game. He was a fan favorite in San Diego and also in Mexicali because of his style of play. He was killed at the start of the next Spring Training in a car crash.

Daniel Longmire
Guest

Is there a better player surname in the modern era than Spooneybarger? Oh man, that’s a Monty Python name if I’ve ever heard one.

GrandyMan
Guest
That’s certainly one of the better ones I’ve heard. My favorites, however, are the ones I can’t pronounce: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/szotkke01.shtml (I hope that works. For some reason, my browser no longer allows me to copy and paste the HTML formatting for links.) I stumbled upon this guy a long time ago, when I noticed that he was at the end of the “S” listing for position players. It could be argued that his career was stranger than his surname: He had 98 PAs in 47 games, all for the Tigers in 1970 and exclusively as a shortstop or pinch hitter. He… Read more »
Chris C
Guest

Rickey Henderson
Tim Raines
Wade Boggs

Lawrence Azrin
Guest

I am traveling down The Road of Strategic Voting for the first time.

Rickey and Chicken Man don’t need my help, so I am voting for three guys with _zero_ votes so far:

-Ryan Sandberg
-Roberto Alomar
-Kevin Brown

Bryan O'Connor
Editor

I voted for Brown at #34, but I think you’re right that a lot of worthy players are at risk of falling off this time around with two no-doubters on the ballot.

Ed
Guest

Bryan – The only people who are at risk of falling off are Martinez, Lofton and Brown. Everyone else has multiple years of eligibility and will remain on the ballot next round regardless of how many votes they receive this round.

Bryan O'Connor
Editor

Good call, Ed. Thanks for pointing that out.

PP
Guest

Henderson, Boggs, Larkin

jeff b
Guest

Henderson boggs raines

As an aside, 5 of the 20 new players listed were on the 1986 red sox. I still don’t know why the mets never asked Marty barrett to be their manager since it worked well with davey Johnson.

Lawrence Azrin
Guest

I get six RS players:

-Rickey Henderson
-Wade Boggs
-Scott Fletcher
-Dave Henderson
-Marty Barrett
-Bruce Hurst
-Steve Crawford

Chris C
Guest

You missed Gary Gaetti. 🙂

qx
Guest

Rickey Henderson, Wade Boggs, Larry Walker

jeff b
Guest

Lawrence, notice I said 1986 red sox, fletcher and rickey weren’t with Boston until later

Andy
Guest

Henderson
Boggs
Gwynn

Dave W
Guest

Rickey Henderson, Tony Gwynn, and Robby Alomar.

ATarwerdi96
Guest

Rickey Henderson, Wade Boggs, Larry Walker

Fireworks
Guest

Rickey, baby. I cannot let Gar be forgotten. And I need to show Julio some love for his longevity. Chicken Man, The Rock, Mr. Padre, Braves pitchers, ya’ll don’t need my help. Sorry Kenny.
Sorry Kevin.

Rickey, Gar, and Julio “Age Ain’t Nothing But A Number” Franco.

Phil
Guest

Henderson, Gwynn, Alomar. I thought Roberto would get wiped out this round, but as I scan votes quickly, he seems to be doing okay.

Richard Chester
Guest

R. Henderson, Boggs, Gwynn

Brooklyn Mick
Guest
Henderson and Boggs are so far ahead of everyone else on the ballot. After those two, there are ELEVEN players whose career WAR rages between 62.1 and 69.7. Wow! 5.6 WAR separates ELEVEN players. 11. Biggio 62.1 – 20 yrs 10. Smoltz 62.6 – 21 yrs 9. Alomar 62.9 – 17 yrs 8. Martinez 64.4 – 18 yrs T6. Lofton 64.9 – 17 yrs T6. Sandberg 64.9 – 16 yrs 5. Gwynn 65.3 – 20 yrs 4. Raines 66.2 – 23 yrs 3. Larkin 67.1 – 19 yrs 2. Glavine 69.3 – 22 yrs 1. Walker 69.7 – 17 yrs… Read more »
Brooklyn Mick
Guest

Ranges, not *rages*.

bstar
Guest

Glavine’s WAR is 76.8, Mick. He’s over seven WAR ahead of the pack you listed.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/WAR_career.shtml

Brooklyn MIck
Guest

You’re right bstar. I was looking at his pitching WAR, which is 69.3. His batting WAR of 7.5 (pretty good for a pitcher) gives him a total WAR of 76.8.

Not only that, I was wrong about the difference between 69.7 and 62.1, which is obviously 7.6 and not 5.6. Duh!

mosc
Guest

7.5 oWAR for a pitcher is unusual to be sure but I still stand by my detailed statistical comparison between Glavine and Smoltz’s hitting: They both sucked. Yet another WAR problem…

bstar
Guest
Mosc, you’re not considering the context at all that they were pitchers? That’s not WAR’s “problem”. Smoltz and Glavine were also artists at laying down the bunt–Glavine has easily the most successful sacrifices by a pitcher for a career, 216. Here’s the top 5: Sacrifice hits for pitchers 1. Tom Glavine 216 2. Greg Maddux 180 3. Joe Niekro 147 4. John Smoltz 136 5. Don Sutton 135 So weird that 3 of the 4 are the ’90s Braves trio. I knew they were good with the stick, but wow. Apparently chicks dig the sacrifice bunt, too. Since things are… Read more »
Voomo Zanzibar
Guest

Whitaker and Trammell and Molitor and Murray on the way into the scrum

Insert Name Here
Guest
As I usually do, I’m going to make an initial vote based on my method for determining the top three (using primarily WAR/162 games during a series of 5+ “peak” seasons, along with a series of tiebreakers), and make any strategic changes later. Additionally, I am not considering PROVEN cheaters, such as Kevin Brown. So, after running this method, here is my initial vote for 3 candidates: 1. Rickey Henderson (7.7 WAR/162 during 14-yr peak of 1980-93) 2. Wade Boggs (6.6 WAR/162 during 12-yr peak of 1982-93) 3. Larry Walker (6.6 WAR/162 during 12-yr peak of 1992-2003) Meanwhile, the other… Read more »
Insert Name Here
Guest

I’m gonna be making a vote change soon, seeing as Rickey has it almost locked up, and Boggs and Walker are both safe for the next round. However, two guys who deserve to stay on, Lofton and Martínez, are still at risk (by my determining).

However, I’m waiting for tomorrow for my final vote, since I want to see how the voting changes in the next 24 hours or so.

DanFlan
Guest

Henderson, Smoltz, Gwynn

Mike HBC
Guest

Henderson, Boggs, Gwynn. In any order. For me, this had to be the easiest vote yet (except for Maddux/Smoltz/Glavine). I thought about Raines over Gwynn, but that was it.

Also, if you are voting for Julio Franco, Kevin Brown, or anyone who has yet to receive a vote in this round for “strategic” reasons, I have lost (or will lose) all respect for you.

Dr. Doom
Guest
I legitimately considered voting for Kevin Brown, not because of strategic reasons, but because I think there’s an argument to be made that he had a better career than Tony Gwynn or Tim Raines or Barry Larkin or Tom Glavine. I have him behind Henderson, Boggs, and Walker. And so that’s how I voted. But there are plenty of reasons to vote for someone which you might not understand. Plus, isn’t losing respect for someone because of a just-for-fun, no-stakes, internet vote a little bit… I don’t know… overblown? If we keep perspective here, I think it’s pretty clear that… Read more »
RJ
Guest

How dare you call the Circle of Greats “just-for-fun” and “no-stakes”? I just lost all respect for you.

Dr. Doom
Guest

RJ, I actually just laughed out loud. Great stuff.

Bryan O'Connor
Editor

Tony Gwynn: 65.3 rWAR, 67.8 fWAR, 36.7 WAA, 132 OPS+
Kevin Brown: 64.5 rWAR, 77.2 fWAR, 40.4 WAA, 127 ERA+

Mike L
Guest

Henderson is obvious, with Raines and Sandberg. We are starting to get into a real scrum where there are a number of players who are deserving. There are fine gradations between a lot of them, and Sandberg and Raines currently have the least accumulated “seniority”. I want to see them continue to get consideration.

Atlcrackersfan
Guest

Glavine
Gwynn
Smoltz

I’ll let other take care of Henderson & Boggs as both are deserving — although Red Sox / Yankees generally leave me cold!

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