Circle of Greats: 1930 Balloting

This post is for voting and discussion in the 50th round of balloting for the Circle of Greats.  This round adds to the ballot those players born in 1930.  Rules and lists are after the jump.

The new group joins the holdovers from previous rounds to comprise the full group eligible to receive your votes this round.  The new group of 1930-born players must, as always, have played at least 10 seasons in the major leagues or generated at least 20 Wins Above Replacement (“WAR”, as calculated by baseball-reference.com, and for this purpose meaning 20 total WAR for everyday players and 20 pitching WAR for pitchers).

Each submitted ballot, if it is to be counted, must include three and only three eligible players.  The one player who appears on the most ballots cast in the round is inducted into the Circle of Greats.  Players who fail to win induction but appear on half or more of the ballots that are cast win four added future rounds of ballot eligibility (or six future rounds, if they appear on 75% or more of the ballots). Players who appear on 25% or more of the ballots cast, but less than 50%, earn two added future rounds of ballot eligibility.  Any other player in the top 9 (including ties) in ballot appearances, or who appears on at least 10% of the ballots, wins one additional round of ballot eligibility.

All voting for this round closes at 11:00 PM EDT on Saturday, March 15, while changes to previously cast ballots are allowed until 11:00 PM EDT Thursday, March 13.

If you’d like to follow the vote tally, and/or check to make sure I’ve recorded your vote correctly, you can see my ballot-counting spreadsheet for this round here: COG 1930 Round Vote Tally.  I’ll be updating the spreadsheet periodically with the latest votes.  Initially, there is a row in the spreadsheet for every voter who has cast a ballot in any of the past rounds, but new voters are entirely welcome — new voters will be added to the spreadsheet as their ballots are submitted.  Also initially, there is a column for each of the holdover players; additional player columns from the new born-in-1930 group will be added to the spreadsheet as votes are cast for them.

Choose your three players from the lists below of eligible players.  The 13 current holdovers are listed in order of the number of future rounds (including this one) through which they are assured eligibility, and alphabetically when the future eligibility number is the same.  The new group of 1930 birth-year guys are listed below in order of the number of seasons each played in the majors, and alphabetically among players with the same number of seasons played.

Holdovers:
Lou Whitaker (eligibility guaranteed for 6 rounds)
Sandy Koufax (eligibility guaranteed for 5 rounds)
Eddie Mathews (eligibility guaranteed for 5 rounds)
Ernie Banks (eligibility guaranteed for 2 rounds)
Juan Marichal (eligibility guaranteed for 2 rounds)
Ron Santo (eligibility guaranteed for 2 rounds)
John Smoltz (eligibility guaranteed for 2 rounds)
Craig Biggio (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Bobby Grich (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Kenny Lofton (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Edgar Martinez (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Willie McCovey (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Ryne Sandberg (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)

Everyday Players (born in 1930, ten or more seasons played in the major leagues or at least 20 WAR):
Del Crandall
Harvey Kuenn
Dick Groat
Hobie Landrith
Bill Skowron
Jerry Lynch
Gus Triandos
Frank Malzone
Wally Moon
Frank House
Bob Lillis
Hal Smith

Pitchers (born in 1930, ten or more seasons played in the major leagues or at least 20 WAR):
Dick Hall
Don McMahon
Bob Friend
Vern Law
Johnny Antonelli
Roger Craig
Frank Lary
Tom Morgan
Bob Turley
Gene Conley
Paul Foytack
Gordon Jones
Frank Sullivan
Tom Sturdivant

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87 Comments on "Circle of Greats: 1930 Balloting"

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Andy
Guest

Mathews, Banks, Santo

Scary Tuna
Guest

Mathews, Banks, Koufax.

Brendan
Guest

Whitaker, Koufax, Santo

Doug
Editor
Wow. So many new names on the ballot. Where do I start? – How about Dick Groat. He, Derek Jeter, Honus Wagner, Joe Sewell and Alex Rodriguez are the only shortstops with eight consecutive seasons batting .275 with 20 doubles and 50 RBI. – Harvey Kuenn and Ty Cobb share the Tigers’ team record with two league-leading 200 hit seasons by age 23, at least one season more than the record for every other team. Kuenn wins the tie-breaker over Cobb as one of Harvey’s seasons led both leagues. – Del Crandall holds the NL record for games caught as… Read more »
Dr. Doom
Guest
Isn’t it odd that Harvey Kuenn, pretty much exclusively a singles hitter, managed the “Wallbangers?” I mean, those ’82-’83 Brewers really knocked the cover off the ball, adjusting for era. About 1/3 of their hits were for extra bases in ’82, and over 30% were for extra bases in ’83 (MLB was around 28% both years). Kuenn’s career percentage was about 23% (when MLB was around 28-29%). And of those, 71% were doubles. Those early-80s Brewers had about 52% doubles and 60% doubles AS A TEAM, respectively (meaning they were a lot better at hitting triples and homers than Kuenn… Read more »
mosc
Guest

Billy Bean famously looks for hitters that were nothing like him. He was drafted out of high school with lots of power and a relatively average BA in his senior year and lots of “tools”. He’s famous for drafting college hitters with a track record of hitting above all other skills.

A manager doesn’t really have much say in the talent he has but a general manager, especially one who has been there as long as any of his player’s professional careers, I find it even more interesting.

Michael Sullivan
Guest

“- Gus Triandos was one of 15 players involved in a trade between the Yankees and Orioles after the 1954 season. Triandos had the most errors among AL catchers in 1958 and 1959 … and was an All-Star selection both times.”

We’ll let Herc from the wire explain why:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxsiZjHO7SA

Richard Chester
Guest

Wally Moon is the only player with exactly 76 RBI in each of his first two years in the ML. Rocco Baldelli came close with 78 and 74 in his first two years.

no statistician but
Guest
As a group this bunch of 1930-born pitchers is interesting for one particular reason—so many of the starters were very good for a relatively short while or sporadically in short careers: Antonelli, Lary, Turley, Conley, Sullivan—all were All-Stars at least twice, yet none of them won 130 games. Part of that can be ascribed to military service, since all but Conley lost two years to the draft. Conley, I’d guess, was too tall for the military at that time. He may have lost something instead because of his pro basketball career. Bob Friend and Vern Law suffered together for the… Read more »
Gary Bateman
Guest

I believe Friend is one of only three pitchers with more than 200 losses and fewer than 200 wins (197-230). The other two, Chick Fraser (175-212) and Jim Whitney (191-204), completed their careers prior to 1910.

Voomo Zanzibar
Guest

Vote:

Koufax
Lofton
Whitaker

Dr. Doom
Guest

A good group. But with this many talented holdovers, I’m honestly glad that we don’t have too much in the way of newcomers.

Eddie Mathews
Ron Santo
Bobby Grich

I’m making this vote for now, but I don’t have access to my spreadsheet at the moment.

Dr. Doom
Guest

Whoops. I checked my spreadsheet. I must’ve forgotten about Ernie Banks. Revised vote:

Eddie Mathews
Ron Santo
Ernie Banks

Final answer, Regis.

MJ
Guest

Eddie Mathews, Lou Whitaker, Bobby Grich

I’m really looking forward to the 1929 vote!

Chris C
Guest

Matthews, Biggio, Edgar

KalineCountry Ron
Guest

Eddie Mathews.
Ernie Banks.
Sandy Koufax.

If I had the BBWAA 10 votes allowed I would include Whitaker, Santo, Marichal, McCovey, Grich, Kuenn, and sentimental Tigers vote for Frank Lary.

Malzone was a terrific fielding 3rd baseman and fairly consistent for a number of years with the bat. I remember him stopping at the McDonalds I worked at as a teen mid 60’s and waving and saying hi. Malzone’s nose was bigger in real life, like an eclipse of the sun. If he had it full of basehits he would have had over 3000 of them.

birtelcom
Guest

Most Games Played at 3rd Base, 1957-1964:
1. Frank Malzone 1,209
2. Eddie Mathews 1,137
3. Ken Boyer 1,108
4. Brooks Robinson 1,074
5. Don Hoak 936

Most All-Star Plate Appearances as a Third Baseman for the AL:
1. Brooks Robinson 47
2. Wade Boggs 32
3. George Brett 30
4. George Kell 25
5. Frank Malzone 21

KalineCountry Ron
Guest

Malzone was also on that first 1957 Gold Glove team with players from both leagues.
Minoso, Nellie Fox, Mays, and of course The Six.

latefortheparty
Guest

Eddie Mathews
Lou Whitaker
Bobby Grich

Mike HBC
Guest

Mathews, Santo, Smoltz

RonG
Guest

Matthews, Koufax, McCovey

Bix
Guest

Koufax, Mathews, Marichal

T-Bone
Guest

Sandberg
Santo
Banks.

A little blue today, I guess.

Richard Chester
Guest

Mathews, Koufax, Banks

ATarwerdi96
Guest

Eddie Mathews, Ron Santo, Ernie Banks

Luis Gomez
Guest

Mathews, Marichal, Martinez.

Francisco
Guest
I’ve always posted only the names I voting for. This time I will support why I’m voting for my fellow Dominican legend, Juan Marichal. These are the names who have led every 10-years span since 1955 in pitching WAR: Period Pitcher 10-years periods 2001-13 Roy Halladay 4 1998-09 Randy Johnson 3 1996-06 Pedro Martínez 2 1993-04 Randy Johnson 3 1991-01 Greg Maddux 2 1982-99 Roger Clemens 9 1979-90 Dave Stieb 3 1977-87 Ron Guidry 2 1971-85 Phil Niekro 6 1967-79 Tom Seaver 4 1966-75 Gaylord Perry 1 1961-74 Bob Gibson 5 1960-69 Juan Marichal 1 1959-68 Don Drysdale 1 1958-67… Read more »
Andy
Guest

Mathews
Koufax
Banks

Paul E
Guest

Grich, McCovey, Sandberg

JEV
Guest

Koufax, McCovey, Banks

Owen
Guest

Lofton
Biggio
Sandberg

Bill Johnson
Guest

McCovey, Marichal, and Whitaker

Artie Z.
Guest

Mathews, Santo, Marichal

BryanM
Guest

Whitaker marichal matthews

Doug
Editor
And, some tidbits about the pitchers. – Dick Hall had 11 consecutive seasons (1961-71) with a .500 or better W-L%, second among relievers behind Oriole teammate Grant Jackson‘s 12 year run (1971-82). Of 44 pitchers with a W-L% under .350 in 500+ IP over the first 6 seasons of a career, only Jackson and Red Ruffing compiled a career W-L% above .500. – Don McMahon, Hoyt Wilhelm, Kent Tekulve and Steve Reed are the only pitchers to log 750 or more games after debuting at age 27 or older. – Bob Friend‘s .359 W-L% in 500+ IP over his first… Read more »
David W
Guest

Sandy Koufax
Ed Mathews
Ernie Banks.

Josh
Guest

Mathews, Marichal, Smoltz

J.R.
Guest

Koufax, Biggio, Grich

jajacob
Guest

whitaker, Matthews, Banks

Darien
Guest

Lofton, Santo, and Banks

aweb
Guest

Mathews, Grich, Santo

koma
Guest

Sandy Koufax, John Smoltz, Craig Biggio

Kirk
Guest

Mathews, Banks & Smoltz

Dr. Remulak
Guest

Biggio, Koufax, Matthews.

Abbott
Guest

Biggio, Marichal, McCovey

Joseph
Guest

Mathews, Banks & McCovey

bells
Guest
Okay, I’m ranking the 13 candidates on 3 measures that measure slightly different aspects of career values – WAR, WAA+ and JAWS. Those on the ballot are ranked 1-13 on each measure and then given a cumulative ranking, so getting a 3 would mean a player was ranked first on all 3 measures, getting a 39 would mean being ranked 13th. Cumulative ranking is beside the player’s name, rankings of the respective individual values are in parentheses. Mathews 3 (1 1 1) Grich 9 (3 2 4) Santo 9 (4 3 2) Whitaker 13 (2 4 7) Martinez 19 (6… Read more »
David Horwich
Guest

There appears to be one vote mistallied…Brendan @3 voted Whitaker, Koufax, Santo, but it was tallied as Whitaker, Koufax, Sandberg.

David Horwich
Guest

Martinez, Sandberg, Smoltz

PP
Guest

Mathews, Marichal, McCovey

wx
Guest

Eddie Mathews, Sandy Koufax, Ernie Banks

bcholm
Guest

Banks, Koufax, Santo

Doug
Guest

Martinez, Lofton, Marichal

Nick Pain
Guest

Mathews, Whitaker, Banks

Hub Kid
Guest

Santo, Marichal, Whitaker

BillH
Guest

Mathews, Marichal, McCovey

Still in the M’s …

opal611
Guest

For the 1930 election, I’m voting for:
-Ryne Sandberg
-Edgar Martinez
-John Smoltz

Other top candidates I considered highly (and/or will consider in future rounds):
-Mathews
-Whitaker
-Grich
-Lofton
-Santo
-McCovey
-Biggio
-Banks

Mike G.
Guest

Mathews, Martinez, Lofton

brp
Guest

Mathews
Grich
Lofton

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