Circle of Greats: Redemption Round #5

This Circle of Greats (COG) vote is not to induct anyone into the Circle, but only to select three players who will be restored back on to the main ballot after having been previously been dropped from eligibility.  This fifth “redemption round” (we also held such rounds after the 1960, 1950, 1940 and 1930 rounds of voting) gives voters a chance to reconsider past candidates who have been rejected.

In this round you may include on your three-man ballot any major league baseball player who was born between 1922 and 1969 and has neither been elected to the Circle of Greats nor is currently on the 1922 part 2 regular COG ballot.  As usual, you must vote for three and only three  to cast a qualifying ballot.  The three players who appear on the most ballots will be restored to eligibility for the next regular, induction round of COG voting.  If your personal favorite doesn’t come in the top three this time, do not despair — he will have other chances in future redemption rounds, which are currently scheduled to be held once after every ten regular induction rounds.

There are many, many players who are eligible for your votes in this redemption round. As an optional aid to your selection process, I’ve put together two spreadsheets, one for pitchers and one for everyday players, that include some stats for a substantial selection of relevant players: Redemption Round 5 Optional Hitter List and Redemption Round 5 Optional Pitcher List. The spreadsheet with everyday players includes 167 166 players who played at least ten seasons in the majors and accumulated at least 32 Wins Above Replacement (baseball-reference version). The pitcher list includes 132 131 pitchers who accumulated at least 25 pitching Wins Above Replacement (two of them, Teddy Higuera and Don Wilson, played only nine seasons in the majors). Again, these spreadsheets represent entirely discretionary lists — your full options are as stated: all major leaguers born between 1922 and 1969 who have not been inducted into the COG and are not on the 1922 part 2 ballot we are also voting on this week.

The deadline to cast your ballots in this redemption round is Sunday night, June 22 at 11:59PM EDT. You can change your votes until 11:59PM EDT on Friday night, June 20.  You can keep track of the vote tally in this redemption round here: COG Redemption Round 5 Vote Tally

97 thoughts on “Circle of Greats: Redemption Round #5

  1. 1
    Voomo Zanzibar says:


    Kevin Brown
    Dennis Eckersley
    Willie Randolph

  2. 2
    BillH says:

    Dave Winfield, Roberto Alomar, Ken Boyer

  3. 3
    koma says:

    Mark McGwire, Dennis Eckersley, Omar Vizquel

  4. 4
    RJ says:

    A quick note on your pitcher list birtelcom: it includes the already elected Mariano Rivera. Otherwise, thanks for putting these together! They’re really going to help.

  5. 6
    Francisco says:

    Jeff Kent, Roberto Alomar, Kevin Brown

  6. 7
    Mike G. says:

    Kevin Brown, Rick Reuschel, David Cone

  7. 8
    Hub Kid says:

    Luis Tiant, Dwight Evans, Dick Allen

  8. 9
    MJ says:

    Rick Reuschel, Kevin Brown, Don Drysdale

  9. 10
    donburgh says:

    Jim Abbott, Dave Parker, Willie Stargell

    • 15
      birtelcom says:

      1 and 5 on the Pirates franchise career homer list, 1 and 4 on the Pirates franchise career Win Probability Added list.

    • 61
      Mike HBC says:

      YES, DONBURGH, YES!!!!!!!!!!!

      I’m so happy that somebody has joined me in the Jim Abbott camp. I voted for him on the original 1967 ballot, I’ve voted for him in every Redemption Round, and i will continue to do so. You’re my new favorite person today, Donburgh.

  10. 11
    JEV says:

    Kent, Brown, Sutton

  11. 12
    ATarwerdi96 says:

    Dennis Eckersley, Goose Gossage, Rafael Palmeiro

  12. 16
    Andy says:

    Dennis Eckersley, Kevin Brown, Dave Winfield

  13. 17
    Dr. Doom says:

    birtelcom, once again I thank you for helping to give a list of “probables” in terms of the voting. I appreciate it very much, as I’m sure many of the other voters do.

    I’m going with an all-pitchers ballot:

    Kevin Brown
    Jim Bunning
    Luis Tiant

    For the record, had they been on the ballot, I would’ve voted for Brown and Bunning(and Sandberg, which I did) in the 1922 round.

  14. 18
    PP says:

    Dewey, El Tiante, Alomar

  15. 19
    Luis Gomez says:

    Roberto Alomar, Luis Tiant, Rafael Palmeiro.

  16. 20
    Chris C says:

    Will Clark, Eckersley, McGwire

  17. 21
    PaulE says:

    Dick Allen , Roberto Alomar, TedSimmons

  18. 22
    Phil says:

    Alomar, Winfield, Kent.

  19. 23
    latefortheparty says:

    Kevin Brown
    Rick Reuschel
    Graig Nettles

  20. 24
    Hartvig says:

    In my crude ranking I have pitchers at #1, 2 & 4 but I also think that we’re a little top heavy on pitchers in the COG already and with Ford & Koufax already having the most accrued eligibility and with Spahn on the immediate horizon, Feller not long after and numerous locks further down the line I think I’ll give position players a little break. Besides which a) I’m not sure how accurately you can compare pitchers and position players and b) the difference between my 2nd ranked and 8th are so small as to be nearly negligible. I’m going to go with 2 guys who are sabermetric “favorites” and 1 that more traditional measures favors:

    Kevin Brown, Graig Nettles, Dave Winfield

    • 36
      Michael Sullivan says:

      My problem with that thinking around pitchers is that I don’t actually support Koufax or Ford, and I see at least 6 redemption eligible pitchers with better cases (Brown, Reuschel, Cone, Saberhagen, Eckersley and Bunning)

      Which is not to say I don’t agree with Nettles, and think Winfield is reasonable. I’d just like to see some pitchers on the ballot that we can put up against Koufax and Ford, instead of just assuming they will get in because they are better than anybody besides Spahn in the next couple birth years.

      I’m coming to accept that Koufax will probably get in from the diehard vote the second we get a ballot without a strong candidate for the non-koufax voters to coalesce around, which is another reason I’d like to see some solid pitchers redeemed here, even though it may happen this round before they show up anyway.

      • 37
        Hartvig says:

        With 15 rounds of accrued eligibility for Koufax and 4 for Ford (try saying that 3 times fast) plus both of them being north of 25% in the current balloting (and well above in Koufax’s case) plus fairly strong support for them in virtually every round AND a long string of well below average talent year on the no too distant horizon again I think it’s inevitable that they will both get in.

        I don’t disagree that at least a case could be made for all of the guys you listed but with the possible exception of Brown I also think that at best they are somewhere in that borderline area of maybe 40 or more guys with nearly equally valid cases for the last 10 spots or so. And since I want to stay somewhere around a 3 to 8 ratio of pitchers to position players like the HOF has (partly because I think it’s nearly impossible to be sure you have the relative value of the two to each other pegged exactly right) if we are going to be picking some more guys from the “grey” area I would prefer they be on the position player side of the scale.

        And while WAR isn’t particularly kind to Koufax or Ford I’m not absolutely certain that they don’t belong either. Most of the factors that count the most against them- except for the relative brevity of Koufax’s career- are the things that seem to be less settled as far as WAR goes. And I’m not certain that anyone has a precise handle on the value of dominance vs. durability either.

        So I’m OK with the idea of a Circle of Greats with Koufax and Ford in it even if I don’t vote for them.

        But if that means that either Nettles or Cone don’t get in then as far as I’m concerned it’s pack your bags David ’cause you’re goin’ home.

        • 40
          Michael Sullivan says:

          I agree that both have cases and wouldn’t be terrible selections, and Koufax at least is probably inevitable. That said, I’d like to see Ford up against a couple of those six guys on the main ballot for a while. If he still gets in on a ballot where they are available as options, so be it, but if he gets in just because he’s the best pitcher available on the ballot at some point in the process, then I see that as a problem.

          I’m not yet confident that those guys would lose a head to head battle with Ford, or even Koufax (whose support is hard-core, but not broad). I think it’s possible that some of them are out primarily because they are in strong birth years, or came into much more stocked holdover ballots.

          Ford, in particular had many ballots where he maintained or built eligibility barely. I think he probably would have dropped off if our holdover list had been as strong as it was through most of the 60s, 50s, and 40s birth years. Remember, guys who are currently outpolling him by a lot (martinez, lofton) dropped off the ballot too, and Edgar just got in.

          • 41
            Michael Sullivan says:

            Oh, and make that *7* pitchers. I forgot about Tiant. I have him ahead of both as well.

            BTW, For me, Brown, Reuschel and Cone at least I think are out of that grey right on the borderline area where we have to pick 10 of about 40 roughly equivalent guys. Close I suppose, but I think they are clearly above the line. But that has something to do with my position on older players and league quality over time.

  21. 25
    RonG says:

    Lou Brock, Luis Tiant, Roberto Alomar

  22. 26
    David Horwich says:

    Roberto Alomar, Graig Nettles, Luis Tiant

    As I discussed during the previous redemption round, I think we’re likely to end up under-representing postwar third baseman, so Nettles gets one of my votes even though I think he’s a longshot to be redeemed.

    Other candidates I gave strong consideration to: Dwight Evans, Dave Winfield, Dennis Eckersley.

    Kevin Brown is a most reasonable candidate, but I just can’t bring myself to vote for him.

  23. 27
    J.R. says:

    Thurman Munson, Dave Winfield, Jim Kaat.

  24. 28
    BillH says:

    Looks like you have Andy (post 16) tabulated twice- once under Andy, and again under Andy (O’s logo)

  25. 29
    opal611 says:

    For Redemption Round 5, I’m voting for:
    -Don Sutton
    -Rafael Palmeiro
    -Willie Randolph

  26. 30
    Steven says:

    Lou Brock, Ted Simmons, Ken Boyer

  27. 31
    Gary Bateman says:

    Alomar, Eckersley, Sutton

  28. 32
    Bill Johnson says:

    Rocky Colavito, Willie Stargell, and Jim Bunning

  29. 34

    Today (Sunday) is the 50th anniversary of the Ernie Broglio trade.

    RR Vote:
    Lou Brock
    Rich Goose Gossage
    Dick Richie Allen

    • 77
      Lawrence Azrin says:


      If you judge that trade by what those players had actually accomplished at the time, you can somewhat understand it.

  30. 35
    robbs says:

    Stargell Allen Winfield

  31. 38
    Darien says:

    Jim Bunning, Rafael Palmeiro, and Bret Saberhagen

  32. 39
    KalineCountry Ron says:

    Jim Bunning
    Mickey Lolich
    Bill Freehan

  33. 42
    aweb says:

    Kevin Brown, Mark McGwire, Luis Tiant

  34. 43
    Bix says:

    Dave Winfield, Roberto Alomar, Dennis Eckersley

  35. 44
    brp says:

    K. Brown

  36. 45
    Abbott says:

    Eckersley, Winfield, Alomar

  37. 46

    *********** NOT A VOTE *****************

    Please remember that R Alomar, S Alomar Jr, and S Alomar Sr are all eligible for the COG redemption round ballot.

    *********** NOT A VOTE *****************

  38. 47
    mosc says:

    Drysdale, Nettles, Winfield

  39. 48
    Artie Z says:

    Kevin Brown, Robbie Alomar, and quite possibly the only player who will be eligible in our voting rounds with 70+ WAR and not be elected to the COG – Rafael Palmeiro.

  40. 49
    paget says:

    I had less trouble coming up with my three votes than I thought I would.

    Dave Winfield
    Dick Allen
    Willie Stargell

    –Winfield remains, in my opinion, the player we’ve let drop off who most belongs.
    –As far as fearsome hitters who didn’t contribute in many other ways, I’d take Dick Allen well over Edgar Martinez. Not sure how to account for Edgar getting elected and Allen not even being able to stay on the ballot. Allen at least played in the field. Moreover, he was a plus base runner.

    –I could have chosen a few other players over Stargell for sure (I entertained the idea of going for Torre, Boyer, Sutton, Nettles among a few others). Career 147 ops+ is a pretty convincing credential, though.

    • 50
      mosc says:

      Top-50 OWAR and no steroids taint (Sheffield, Manny). Winfield outhit relative to position: Edgar Martinez, McCovey, Stargell, Walker, Mize, Palmero, and Snider (who gets a CF boost). You have to really view Winfield as a very poor defender to think he doesn’t belong. RFIELD would tell you he’s one of the worst offenders ever over a career but that doesn’t match his reputation at all. He won SEVEN gold gloves. Call him average if you want, but one of the worst defensive corner outfielders ever? That’s just wrong.

      • 51
        Voomo Zanzibar says:

        Agreed on his defense. And I don’t mind repeating myself – as a mid-late 80’s bleacher creature, this eyeball test says that there’s no way Dave! Dave! Dave! Dave! Dave! was anything less than average.

        If maybe, maybe his long body had a slow first step, he more than made up for it with his arm (both the throws he made and the ones he didn’t have to because of the respect he got).

        And I’ll put my vote where my mouth is.
        For the guy who never played in the minors and went out as the oldest player in the league:

        Vote CHANGE:





        Sorry Willie.

        • 52
          mosc says:

          My next three would be Randolph, Eckersley, and Sutton.

          I don’t like Kevin Brown for some reason. Maybe those last two yankee years or the huge deal to an aging pitcher are coloring things too much for me.

          Steroids era is maybe not significantly accounted for in my mind for him though. In 2004 he pitched a 4.09 ERA with a pitcher friendly PPFp of 99.0 and I’m supposed to know that it equates to an ERA+ of 110. 110!!!

          • 53
            Voomo Zanzibar says:

            Yeah, I hear you. He was lousy for 10 of his last 13 games. That’s enough reason to hate on him.

            And of course there was that time that Kevin Brown drowned a sack of puppies.

            Doesn’t quite make up for a five year peak of 7.4 WAR while leading two different teams to the WS, I suppose.

          • 56
            Voomo Zanzibar says:

            Okay, some cherry-picked numbers to accompany the sarcasm:

            Sampling of COG pitchers, et al…
            Best 5 year WAR stretch:

            44.1 Randy Johnson
            42.7 Pedro Martinez
            42.5 Bob Gibson
            42.5 Robin Roberts
            41.7 Roger Clemens
            40.9 Sandy Koufax
            40.3 Greg Maddux
            40.1 Phil Neikro
            39.9 Tom Seaver
            39.1 Wilbur Wood
            37.3 Gaylord Perry
            37.1 Juan Marichal
            36.9 Kevin BROWN
            36.8 Fergie Jenkins
            36.5 Curtis Schilling
            35.4 Johan Santana
            35.2 Bert Blyleven
            31.0 Jim Palmer
            30.9 Rick Reuschel
            30.8 Clayton Kershaw (early sample)
            29.4 Steve Carlton
            28.2 Mike Moose
            27.7 Nolan Ryan
            25.1 Tom Glavine
            23.8 Whitey Ford
            21.0 Babe Ruth

        • 54
          RJ says:

          Winfield’s Rfield really takes a beating from the fact that he played on for so long.

          He doesn’t rate too poorly for the majority of his career: negative 27 Rfield over his first 14 seasons is about two runs worse than average on a per year basis. That’s not a ridiculous number, especially if Rfield is indeed capturing some deficiency in range or positioning that the eye doesn’t easily pick up.

          But, because he could still contribute with the bat, he kept on playing, and obviously he lost something on defense. Over half of Winfield’s negative Rfield comes from his six final post-injury years. Fully 70% of his negative Rfield comes after his age 34 season. It’s not implausible to think that a man in his late thirties, who suffered a season-long back injury at the age of 37, would be much worse than average in the field. That he was moved to DH at the age of 40 suggests that his managers were aware of this.

          I’m not saying Rfield is right or wrong, just that his defensive numbers are at least plausible.

          • 68
            bstar says:

            The only other defensive measures out there that cover Winfield’s career are DRA and Tom Tango’s WOWY system.

            DRA has Winfield at -118 runs.

            Still searching for a WOWY Winfield number…

            mosc: I don’t think it’s really correct to say, “Rfield is suggesting Winfield was one of the worst RF’ers in history.”

            What it IS suggesting is that Winfield was *quite possibly* one of the worst fielders to get over 1000 starts in the outfield past the age of 30.

            I’ve probably said this before, but the disparity between Winfield’s defensive reputation and his stats are similar to Dale Murphy’s. Murph won five straight GG’s in the ’80s with a collective Rfield of… -43!

            mosc, I guarantee you that if Murph’s hitting skills hadn’t taken an uggla turn for the worse his career Rfield would have ended up just as negative as Winfield’s total.

        • 55
          mosc says:

          Winfield’s RFIELD through his age 30 season? -50. He was not only a well thought of defender with multiple gold gloves, he would go on to win 4 MORE gold gloves in his early 30s. This isn’t a player who aged beyond his defensive reputation (Jeter), it’s a player who’s reputation was always better than RFIELD now says.

          • 57
            RJ says:

            mosc, you’re looking at his positional adjustment. His Rfield through age 30 is -1.

          • 66
            Michael Sullivan says:

            Jeter (in some quarters) has also always had a better defensive reputation than rfield suggests. If rfield is to be believed, far from aging beyond his rep, he’s held pretty steady and maybe even improved as he’s aged.

            Since 2008, Jeter’s rfield is -9 per 650 PAs. Ok he’s playing a little more DH, but not that much 54 games vs. 775 at short. Adjusted, that means -9.6 per 650 PA of playing short.

            Going from the beginning of his career, you have to stop at 2000 to get a better number for rfield per 650 PAs, and it isn’t much better.

            With only a few exceptions, rField says Jeter was a poor defender for short pretty much his whole career, and was actually worse right in the middle.

          • 67
            Artie Z. says:

            Regarding Jeter, I know there are 900 things that go into being a league leader in some standard defensive stat (who the other players in the field are, who the pitchers are, etc.), but Jeter was never consistently on the leaderboard for defensive statistics. Except defensive games at SS – if I’ve counted correctly, he had 13 top 5 finishes in games at SS. Okay, and he does have 8 top 5 finishes in putouts, and 9 in fielding percentage. But he only has 4 top 5 finishes in double plays, only twice has he finished top 5 in assists, and only once in range factor. Are Yankee pitchers striking out that many more batters than other staffs and/or giving up that many more flyballs?

            Compare that to Omar Vizquel – 11 seasons top 5 in defensive games at SS. 10 times top 5 in putouts, 8 times in assists, 8 times in DPs, 5 times in range factor, and 13 times in fielding percentage.

            Rey Ordonez had 4 seasons of top 5 games played, and 4 seasons in the top 5 in putouts, 3 top 5 in assists, 3 top 5 in DPs, 3 in range factor, and 3 in fielding percentage.

            Rfield is not a huge fan of Miguel Tejada (-22 with Oakland, -17 with Baltimore, -2 with Houston). Still, he had 10 seasons in the top 5 in games played at SS – and 9 in putouts, 10 in assists, 10 in DPs, 7 in range factor, and 4 in fielding percentage (he made a lot of errors – 10 times top 5).

            Rfield does like Adam Everett, and even though he never finished top 5 in games played at SS, he did finish top 5 twice in putouts at SS, once in assists at SS, twice in range factor, twice in fielding percentage, and once in double plays.

            And then look at Ripken. 14 years top 5 in games played at SS (kind of obvious). 11 times top 5 in putouts, 14 times top 5 in assists, 14 times top 5 in DPs, 12 times top 5 in fielding percentage, and 5 times top 5 in range factor (all the range factor top 5 finishes are from the per 9 innings leaderboard). Then he moved to 3rd base, where he twice finished in the top 5 in games, and also twice in putouts, twice in assists, 3 times in DPs, and 3 times in fielding percentage.

            I realize that looking at one season or one defensive statistic is useless – but when looking at an entire body of work, unless something is very far out of whack for a long period of time, I would think that a good, or even average, defensive player would appear on defensive leaderboards. And Jeter doesn’t really appear on leaderboards for assists or DPs, which, to me, seem important for a shortstop. He has made some spectacular plays (the flip, the diving into the stands with the bloody chin, etc.), and those plays seem to have given his reputation a boost.

            FYI: What’s crazy is that Cano DOES appear on numerous leaderboards. 8 times (I’m only looking through 2013) top 5 in defensive games at 2B. 8 top 5 finishes in putouts, 8 in assists, 6 in DPs, 6 in range factor, 4 in fielding percentage. Heck, Cano might be part of the reason Jeter has better Rfield as he got older. But even Soriano had 3 top 5 finishes in games at 2B when with the Yankees, and 3 top 5 finishes in putouts, 2 in assists, and 2 in DPs. Even Knoblauch did okay with the Yankees until he stopped being able to throw the ball to first.

  41. 58
    bells says:

    Okay now here’s the redemption vote according to my methodology. I take four measures of player value as a gauge of how players compare across advanced metrics that value things slightly differently. Then I give them a cumulative rank with all players on the ballot over 50 WAR, adding their ranking of each measure. Here are the measures:

    WAR – the ‘classic’ way of measuring a player’s value over a player the team could have gotten to replace the player, over that player’s career, to show how ‘good’ that player was.

    WAA+ – adding the wins above average players (rather than replacement) for that player’s positive seasons (ie. tossing out the negative seasons), to measure how great that player was when he was great.

    JAWS – a weighted WAR score to incorporate both peak and career performance by weighting a player’s best seasons.

    WAR*WAR/162G (250 IP for pitchers) – this is a fun construction I saw John Autin use on the last redemption round that takes into account peak and career performance, but using games played as a unit rather than seasons.

    My hope is that ranking this will give a bit of an overall picture of player value. Here are the cumulative rankings of the top 15 players (out of a list of the 55 eligible players with the highest WAR), in order (a ’4′ would rank first in all 4 categories):

    Reuschel 7
    Brown 7
    Tiant 28
    Alomar 35
    Cone 38
    Reggie Smith 39
    Nettles 42
    McGwire 45
    Palmeiro 47
    Drysdale 50
    Buddy Bell 51
    Randolph 53
    Saberhagen 53
    Bando 58
    Boyer 59

    Reuschel and Brown are clearly a cut above, and I’m gonna go for a personal favourite who’s in the mix for the 3rd (plus I don’t want 3 pitchers):

    Alomar (Robbie, obvs)

    • 59
      bells says:

      Those were the top 15 on my list of 54 eligible players (forgot my spreadsheet list started on row 2 when I wrote my last comment). Here are the rest, in order:

      16. Dick Allen
      17. Dwight Evans
      18. Andre Dawson
      19. Jim Bunning
      20. Dennis Eckersley
      21. Billy Williams
      22. Keith Hernandez
      23. Dave Stieb
      24. Sammy Sosa
      25. Bobby Bonds
      26. Dave Winfield
      27. Gary Sheffield
      28. Chuck Finley
      29. Kevin Appier
      30. Jim Wynn
      31. Don Sutton
      32. Willie Davis
      33. John Olerud
      34. Orel Hershiser
      35. Chet Lemon
      36. Will Clark
      37. Willie Stargell
      38. Robin Ventura
      39. Joe Torre
      40. Jeff Kent
      41. Cesar Cedeno
      42. Frank Tanana
      43. Dwight Gooden
      44. Ron Cey
      45. Billy Pierce
      46. Jose Cruz
      47. Jerry Koosman
      48. Vida Pinson
      49. Jack Clark
      50. Luis Aparicio
      51. David Wells
      52. Bert Campaneris
      53. Tony Perez
      54. Fred McGriff

  42. 60
    Mike HBC says:

    Jim Abbott
    Curtis Pride
    Jim Eisenreich


  43. 62
    Nick Pain says:

    Sutton, Reuschel, Dwight Evans

  44. 63
    Joel says:

    Kevin Brown
    David Cone
    Roberto Alomar

  45. 64
    Low T says:

    As a Rangers fan, I watched Kevin Brown be an amazing ass to anyone who got within 50 feet of him. He made Clemens look like a nice guy, and the only guy I can think of who rivals Bonds in that area. I can’t vote for him and feel good about it.

    Alomar, Winfield, Nettles

  46. 65

    Kevin Brown, Mark McGwire, and Dennis Eckersley

  47. 69
    TJay says:

    McGwire, Dick Allen, Ted Simmons

  48. 70
    jeff hill says:

    Jeff Kent
    Kevin Brown
    Will Clark

  49. 71
    Kirk says:

    R Alomar, Reuschel, and Aparicio

  50. 72
    Dr. Doom says:

    For anyone interested, the top 5, through 46 ballots cast (the spreadsheet, plus jeff hill and Kirk):

    Kevin Brown (16)
    Roberto Alomar (15)
    Dave Winfield (12)
    Dennis Eckersley (9)
    Luis Tiant and Rick Reuschel (7)

    Dick Allen and Rafael Palmeiro are next at 6, followed by Mark McGwire and Graig Nettles at 5. Jim Bunning, Willie Stargell, Jeff Kent, and Don Sutton are next at 4. Lou Brock, Dwight Evans, and Ted Simmons are sitting at 3 votes apiece. I’m not going to got below that level, because at 2 or 1 we’re really not talking about guys with a lot of support. Frankly, even Tiant and Reuschel are probably out of it at this point, and Eck will only get back in it if he can get a HUGE voting push soon.

  51. 73
    Josh says:

    Dennis Eckersley, Dave Winfield, Graig Nettles

  52. 74
    Brendan Bingham says:

    Luis Tiant, Ted Simmons, Dick Allen

  53. 75
    wx says:

    Jamie Moyer, Dennis Eckersley, John Olerud

  54. 76
    bstar says:

    Dick Allen, Ken Boyer, Roberto Alomar

  55. 78
    MikeD says:


    There are so many players with a case to be returned it will be interesting to see if votes are hopelessly split. I guess I’ll now go and check the running score.

  56. 79
    Doug says:

    Nettles, Alomar, Eckersley

  57. 80
    --bill says:

    Kevin Brown, Rick Reuschel, Don Drysdale

  58. 81
    Michael Sullivan says:

    I said I’d do pitchers this round, and I don’t see a good reason not too. I’ll be okay if Alomar or Winfield ends up selected, but they don’t appear to need my help.

    Brown, Eckersley, Reuschel

  59. 82
    Jeff B says:

    Stargell, Sutton and Winfield

    I have voted for all 3 in the main election, so why not here?

  60. 83
    Aidan Mattson says:

    Alomar, Eckersley, McGwire

  61. 85
    Insert Name Here says:

    Since I’m sweeping in with just hours until voting closes, and the number of candidates is immense and quite difficult and time-consuming to rank with my peak WAR/162 method, I’ve decided to vote strategically…

    Of the four candidates within reach of the three spots, I think Winfield is the one I least want back on the ballot. Therefore, I’m voting for Alomar, Bunning, and Eckersley.

    • 89
      paget says:

      So far most of the discussion about Winfield’s merits in this thread has centered on the reliability (or lack thereof) of dWAR. What no one has brought up is the disservice that oWAR does to Winfield.

      Winfield was extremely hurt by his home parks; at tOPS+ 97/103 for his home-road split, he is one of the Hall of Famers whose stat line suffered the most on account of his home ball park. Now, in theory oWAR accounts for that. But what it doesn’t do -as far as I know- is take into account the following fact: while Yankee Stadium in the 1980s was hideous for right-handed power hitters it was much better for guys who hit from the left-side (famous short porch and all). Which means that on balance I don’t think it was that bad of a park for offense, because things basically evened out. Had the park been as bad for lefties as it was for righties I think Winfield’s WAR would look substantially better – but WAR only looks at the offensive environment of the park *as a whole*. Which is a real weakness when you’re dealing with a park that was as asymmetrical as old Yankee Stadium.

      (And again, someone please correct me if I’m wrong about how oWAR deals with H/R splits.)

      • 90
        Voomo Zanzibar says:

        Here’s Winfield’s slash splits:

        .283 .353 .475 .827

        Yankee Stadium:
        .286 .356 .478 .834 … 101 tOPS+

        Jack Murphy Stadium:
        .271 .346 .445 .791 … 92 tOPS+

      • 93
        MikeD says:

        I guess there is a similar argument when looking at OPS+. Joe DiMaggio and Bill Dickey played in the same park, but DiMaggio was greatly hurt by Yankee Stadium, where Dickey was helped, yet their OPS+ score views the stadium as a whole.

  62. 87
    Richard Chester says:

    Mattingly, Puckett, Stargell

  63. 88
    RJ says:

    It’s ridiculous how many should-be-Hall-of-Famers there are on the ballot. Having said that, there are very few who are clearly CoGers. Brown stands out amongst pitchers. Eckersley might provide an interesting comparison with Wilhelm on the main ballot. I can’t decide between the myriad of similar infielders, so I’ll throw a bone to Billy Williams, who doesn’t seem to be getting any love.

    Vote: Kevin Brown, Dennis Eckersley, Billy Williams.

  64. 92
    David P says:

    Not a fan of Eck or Winfield returning to the ballot. There’s a long line of players I’d put before them. But since at least one of them is bound to return…


  65. 94
    birtelcom says:

    Final Top Vote-Getters in the Redemption Round Voting:
    Roberto Alomar 22 (returns to the main ballot)
    Kevin Brown 19 (returns to the main ballot)
    Dennis Eckersley 16 (returns to the main ballot)
    Dave Winfield 15
    Luis Tiant 10
    Rick Reuschel 9
    Graig Nettles and Dick Allen 8

    • 95
      David P says:

      Ah funny! Based on the comments, I thought my last minute vote was breaking a tie between Winfield and Eck. I was hoping that would get me a plaque in Yankee Stadium, just like Tino Martinez. Guess I’ll have to wait a bit longer. 🙂

    • 96
      mosc says:

      It saddens me not to see Winfield back on the ballot. All this Eck voting seems to be anti-Winfield which I find bizzare. Regardless, I like Eck a lot and will probably vote for him.

    • 97
      Chris C says:

      Ugh. Already finding it an impossible task to get Biggio and Sandberg elected even though Whittaker and Grich went in. I like Alomar but it looks like a death sentence for my guys.

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