Circle of Greats 1972 Balloting Part 1

This post is for voting and discussion in the 122nd round of balloting for the Circle of Greats (COG).  This is the first of three rounds adding to the list of candidates eligible to receive your votes those players born in 1972. Rules and lists are after the jump.

The new group of 1972-born players, in order to join the eligible list, must, as usual, have played at least 10 seasons in the major leagues or generated at least 20 Wins Above Replacement (“WAR”, as calculated by baseball-reference.com, and for this purpose meaning 20 total WAR for everyday players and 20 pitching WAR for pitchers). This first group of 1972-born candidates, including those with A-G surnames, joins the eligible holdovers from previous rounds to comprise the full list of players eligible to appear on your ballots. The remaining 1972-born candidates, with H-Z surnames, will be eligible to receive your votes in the next two rounds of balloting.

Each submitted ballot, if it is to be counted, must include three and only three eligible players. As always, the one player who appears on the most ballots cast in the round is inducted into the Circle of Greats. Players who fail to win induction but appear on half or more of the ballots that are cast win four added future rounds of ballot eligibility. Players who appear on 25% or more of the ballots cast, but less than 50%, earn two added future rounds of ballot eligibility. Any other player in the top 9 (including ties) in ballot appearances, or who appears on at least 10% of the ballots, wins one additional round of ballot eligibility.

All voting for this round closes at 11:59 PM EST Sunday, January 29th, while changes to previously cast ballots are allowed until 11:59 PM EST Friday, January 27th.

If you’d like to follow the vote tally, and/or check to make sure I’ve recorded your vote correctly, you can see my ballot-counting spreadsheet for this round here: COG 1972 Part 1 Vote Tally. I’ll be updating the spreadsheet periodically with the latest votes. Initially, there is a row in the spreadsheet for every voter who has cast a ballot in any of the past rounds, but new voters are entirely welcome — new voters will be added to the spreadsheet as their ballots are submitted. Also initially, there is a column for each of the holdover candidates; additional player columns from the new born-in-1972 group will be added to the spreadsheet as votes are cast for them.

Choose your three players from the lists below of eligible players. The eleven current holdovers are listed in order of the number of future rounds (including this one) through which they are assured eligibility, and alphabetically when the future eligibility number is the same. The 1972 birth-year players are listed below in order of the number of seasons each played in the majors, and alphabetically among players with the same number of seasons played.

Holdovers:
Kevin Brown (eligibility guaranteed for 5 rounds)
Goose Goslin (eligibility guaranteed for 5 rounds)
Dave Winfield (eligibility guaranteed for 3 rounds)
Dick Allen (eligibility guaranteed for 2 rounds)
Wes Ferrell (eligibility guaranteed for 2 rounds)
Graig Nettles (eligibility guaranteed for 2 rounds)
Richie Ashburn (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Bill Dahlen (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Andre Dawson (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Luis Tiant (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Bobby Wallace (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)

Everyday Players (born in 1972, ten or more seasons played in the major leagues or at least 20 WAR, A-G surname):
Garret Anderson
Juan Castro
Carlos Delgado
Cliff Floyd
Tony Clark
Shawn Green
Tony Graffanino
Paul Bako
Danny Bautista
David Bell
Gary Bennett
Einar Diaz

Pitchers (born in 1972, ten or more seasons played in the major leagues or at least 20 WAR, A-G surname):
Armando Benitez
Brian Anderson
Scott Eyre
Antonio Alfonseca
Omar Daal
Keith Foulke

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124 Comments on "Circle of Greats 1972 Balloting Part 1"

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Doug
Guest
This round’s tidbits. Answers highlighted following questions. 1. Juan Castro played 17 seasons and failed to record 350 PA in any of them. Excluding pitchers and catchers, who is the only other player with such a career? Jim Dwyer 2. Garret Anderson played 100 games at a different outfield position for three consecutive seasons (1997-99). Which HOFer did the same? Stan Musial (1952-54) 3. Cliff Floyd played in the World Series for both Florida teams. Which player appeared in the World Series for both current Pennsylvania teams? Bobby Byrne 4. Carlos Delgado recorded his 400th double and 400th home run… Read more »
Scary Tuna
Guest

Thanks for getting the COG post up so quickly, Doug.

Question 4 (Carlson Delgado): I remember this coming up in HHS not too long ago. Wasn’t it Mark Teixeira who reached 400 doubles and home runs in the same season (2016)?

oneblankspace
Guest

16 (Alfonseca): Joe Borowski, 2007 (5.07 ERA = 89 ERA+)

Doug
Guest

Joe is our man.

brp
Guest

#15 – Lee Smith? Cardinals, Cubs, Angels, Orioles by 1995.

Randy Myers did it by 1997.

brp
Guest

#9 could be Omar Infante… played 200 games for ATL but not at 2B.

Dr. Doom
Guest

18. Omar Daal – In 1904, Tom Hughes lost 11 games for the Yankees and 12 for the Senators. His Senators teammate Happy Townsend, though, lost 26 to lead the AL. To prove the ineptitude of the Senators of that era, two of the three pitchers tied with Hughes’ 23 losses that year was ALSO theirs – Beany Jacobson, and Casey Patten Yikes.

oneblankspace
Guest

7 (Green): Carlos Beltrán had 4 HR in the other 2004 NLDS.

Richard Chester
Guest

Question #1: JIm Dwyer played 18 seasons and never had more than 292 PA.

Richard Chester
Guest

Question #3: Bobby Byrne played for the Pirates in the 1909 WS and for the Phils in the 1915 WS.

Richard Chester
Guest

Question #2: Stan Musial played 100+ games in CF (1952), LF (1953) and RF (1954).

Richard Chester
Guest

Question # 10: Dave Liddell in 1990.

Scary Tuna
Guest

#5 (Tony Clark question): Norm Cash. The other three are Hank Greenberg, Rudy York, and Miguel Cabrera.

Richard Chester
Guest

Question #14: I found 2 such players. Andruw Jones in game 1 of the 1996 WS and Pedro Guerrero in game 6 of the 1981 WS.

Richard Chester
Guest

Doug: I’m not sure if I understand question #12 but I came up with Henry Blanco for the answer.

Richard Chester
Guest

Question #17: Frank Pytlak 1936-1938

Hartvig
Guest

Oh happy day!

Christmas in January!

Gotta do a little research to figure out who my 3rd pick is going to be (I already know 1 & 2)

Mike L
Guest

OMG, the return of the Kevin Brown debate. Just when you thought you were out…Doug pulls you back in. Between this and politics…..

David P
Guest

Cracked me up Mike L.!

Mike L
Guest

I’m glad it did. Been a rough week around here…

oneblankspace
Guest
The holdover list doesn’t quite match. From Doug’s comment on the last thread http://www.highheatstats.com/2016/02/circle-of-greats-round-121-balloting/#comment-109128 : Our holdover list then will be: – Kevin Brown (eligibility guaranteed for 5 rounds) – Goose Goslin (eligibility guaranteed for 5 rounds) – Dave Winfield (eligibility guaranteed for 3 rounds) – Dick Allen (eligibility guaranteed for 2 rounds) – Graig Nettles (eligibility guaranteed for 2 rounds) – Richie Ashburn (eligibility guaranteed for this round only) – Bill Dahlen (eligibility guaranteed for this round only) – Andre Dawson (eligibility guaranteed for this round only) – Wes Ferrell (eligibility guaranteed for this round only) – Luis Tiant… Read more »
no statistician but
Guest
The question is this: can you re-inflate a soufflé? The ongoing discussion, argument and counterargument, presentation of statistics, and history of the voting as it progressed over time—such things shaped the impression of the holdover candidates on the voters, but now those things are far from fresh. True enough, some players, notable Kevin Brown and Dick Allen, carry their controversy with them, but—just to pick two players on the list—who really remembers the debate on Tiant or Nettles, especially the misgivings various commentators expressed, since the positives are easily accessed at B-Ref. Any chance of re-running some threads of argument… Read more »
Doug
Guest

Here is the link to the earlier COG threads.

http://www.highheatstats.com/?s=circle+of+greats&submit=#.Vum7veIrLcs

You can use the same query structure to search for player names.

Hartvig
Guest

For anyone wishing to refamiliarize themselves with some of the holdover candidates I highly recommend following Doug’s link and reading the comments section of the first post (other than this one) called Circle of Greats Recap.

Many of the comments are worth reading and I’d especially single out 3 by Dave Humbert at the very end of the comments section.

David P
Guest

Meh. Discussion…I don’t need no stinkin’ discussion.

Nettles
Drysdale
Winfield

Yawn.

Jeff Harris
Guest

Goslin, Brown, Dahlen

Voom Zanzibar
Guest

Keith Foulke had
5 seasons of 3+ WAR and
4 seasons of 3.5+ WAR

He’s in rare company.
No way to reverse-engineer the top results to that without a P-I subscription.
Would someone else mind looking it up?

birtelcom
Editor

Relief pitchers with most seasons of 3.5 or more WAR:
Mariano Rivera 8 seasons
Keith Foulke 4 seasons
7 guys tied with 3 seasons

Relief pitchers with most seasons of 3 or more WAR:
Mariano Rivera 11 seasons
Goose Gossage 6 seasons
Keith Foulke and John Hiller 5 seasons

birtelcom
Editor

Pitcher Win Probability Added, 1999-2004:
1. Pedro Martinez 30.4
2. Randy Johnson 27.8
3. Curt Schilling 22.6
4. Keith Foulke 20.0
5. Mariano Rivera 19.8
6. Armando Benitez 19.2
7. John Smoltz 17.4
8. Tim Hudson 17.2
9. Billy Wagner 16.1
10. Kevin Brown 15.4

Hartvig
Guest

I had completely forgotten about Foulke ever pitching for the White Sox, which is kind of inexcusable since his trade to Oakland was one of the major episodes that led to Billy Bean being almost deified as the consummate deal-maker, not to mention Kenny Williams being one of this favorite marks.

JEV
Guest

Goslin, Brown, Drysdale.

Dr. Doom
Guest

As Doug said to David P above, you’re going to have to change your vote, as Drysdale isn’t on the ballot.

JEV
Guest

Got it.

So, we’ll go with Goslin, Brown, and Ferrell

Voom Zanzibar
Guest
I can’t see voting for any of the new crop. So hard to decide on the guys from 100+ years ago, especially when they dont have eye-popping offensive numbers. Going on longevity and defensive rep. But between Wallace and Dahlen, Dahlen seems to be a few ticks ahead. A lot of other guys with longevity (and defense) on this list. Dick Allen had neither. He’s out. Choosing between Tiant, Drysdale, and Brown is a toss-up in some ways. But I’m looking for dominance. And what Brown did between 1996-2000 sets him apart from the other two. Too hard to choose… Read more »
Voom Zanzibar
Guest

Oops.
Somehow I missed Ferrell.
I’ve been on the Ferrell train from the beginning.
Dude stretched 8 man lineups to 9, while being the 2nd best pitcher in the league.

So, while setting a possible record for fastest vote-change:

Vote:
Kevin Brown
Wes Ferrell
Dave Winfield

brp
Guest

VOTE

Kevin Brown
Bill Dahlen
Luis Tiant

e pluribus munu
Guest
In the case of the current crop of 1972 births, I’m a little concerned that the alphabet may not be serving us well. We’ll be electing three players, but none of the three leaders in WAR is in the group listed in the current post. Those three are Chipper Jones (85.0), Manny Ramirez (69.2), and Andy Pettitte (60.9). All three are competitive within the current group of holdovers, and far above the leader in the current group of newbies (Delgado, at 44.3). In past CoG rounds, when we were young and the world in springtime, I sometimes posted a summary… Read more »
Paul E
Guest

Allen
Goslin
Winfield

Dr. Doom
Guest

My vote for the 122nd round will be sticking with my guys from the 121st round. I’m sorry we don’t have all the newcomers on the ballot right away, but there’s really only one I’m probably going to be voting for, anyway. So, without further ado:

Kevin Brown
Wes Ferrell
Luis Tiant

opal611
Guest

For the 1972 Part 1 election, I’m voting for:
-Dave Winfield
-Andre Dawson
-Luis Tiant

Other top candidates I considered highly (and/or will consider in future rounds):
-Brown
-Goslin
-Ashburn
-Nettles
-Allen
-Wallace
-Dahlen

Thanks!

Kahuna Tuna
Guest

Tidbit #13: Raúl Ibáñez.

Hub Kid
Guest
Huzzah for the COG (and heck, the HOF, too)! I’m finding it harder to vote for past MVPs than I did for the COG, so it’s good to get back to the COG. Thanks to Dr. Doom for the MVP votes, too; they are great reads, I just don’t feel qualified to vote on any one season, not without days of research (and maybe a time machine). That said, this is pretty hard, too; especially going back to the same never-ending battles. I don’t think I would have guessed that this was how Doug would decide to do it, but… Read more »
Gary Bateman
Guest

Goslin, Ferrell, Ashburn

e pluribus munu
Guest
I’m going to cast an initial vote, and remain open to change after listening to arguments: Dahlen, Ferrell, Goslin I want to add an argument myself: why I continue to be unwilling to vote for Kevin Brown. The basic problem with Kevin Brown, as we’ve discussed often enough, is PEDs. I know some really good HHS posters have decided that PEDs have to be put aside, but I don’t share that view. This isn’t about the ethics of PEDs: I don’t see PED use as disqualifying. I would vote for a Bonds or Clemens for the CoG (or HoF), but… Read more »
no statistician but
Guest

Exactly the point: Bonds and Clemens established HOF credentials before the steroids rage. Brown, in contrast, was a good but not great pitcher through his age 30 season, then suddenly his stats exploded just coincidentally when his PED use appears to have begun. If it didn’t happen that way, if the stars just aligned themselves, or he developed a new pitching method, or whatever, I’d be highly surprised. Dazzy Vance had an arm operation that made him a new pitcher at age 30, so such things can happen, but . . .

Hartvig
Guest

epm has pretty much summed up my thinking on the subject as well.

Along with Brown I would lump McGwire, Palmeiro, Sosa, Sheffield and Manny Ramirez into the same category. With most of these guys I remain amendable to being persuaded otherwise but it would have to be a pretty compelling argument I haven’t heard already.

What troubles me is if I am making adequate adjustments for the guys who apparently didn’t cheat- like Fred McGriff or Kirby Puckett.

Dr. Doom
Guest

VOTE UPDATE!

(It feels really good to write those words.)

Through 12 ballots (though now, without numbered comments, it’s much, much harder to do this):

=================50% (6)
5 – Kevin Brown, Wes Ferrell, Goose Goslin, Luis Tiant*
4 – Bill Dahlen*, Dave Winfield
=================25% (3)
2 – Dick Allen, Graig Nettles
=================10% (2)
1 – Richie Ashburn*, Andre Dawson*, Carlos Delgado*, Bobby Wallace*

* = on the bubble; all holdovers have received at least one vote each

Hartvig
Guest
Time to vote. 1) Ferrell (probably no surprise there) 2) Nettles 3) Ashburn 1 & 2 are both within my 5 most deserving of COG inclusion of people that we have already voted on, possibly the top 3 (when they’re this close it’s hard to have any absolutes). I’d guess that spots 6 thru 10 are all on the ballot except for maybe Buddy Bell who might sneak in towards the bottom. I’m not unmindful of emp’s concerns that we may be underrating- or at least under-appreciating- some of the earlier players, specifically Dahlen & Wallace (as well as a… Read more »
T-Bone
Guest

Allen, Ferrell, Tiant

Josh Davis
Guest

Kevin Brown, Dave Winfield and Goose Goslin

Bruce Gilbert
Guest

Graig Nettles, Bill Dahlen and Bobby Wallace

no statistician but
Guest
The COG holdovers for this round have surprisingly uniform WAR levels, and that may be why there is little consensus in the voting thus far. None of the new additions to the list are on a par with any of the holdovers, making this a very important election, insofar as future votes most often won’t be so kind to the older players. What I see is a group of three similar players, Nettles, Dahlen, and Wallace, great infield gloves who could hit; four outfielders who could really hit—Goslin, Winfield, Ashburn, Dawson; three pitchers of about the same value with disparate… Read more »
Doug
Guest
Nice encapsulation. I’m starting to be persuaded by your argument against Nettles. While his 68 WAR on the surface looks like borderline COG, it came in 2700 games, which is a lot more than most players compile in a career. Yes, Nettles is one of only seven primary third basemen (75% of PAs) with 100 Rfield and 100 Rbat, but adding the two together leaves Nettles with easily the lowest result of that group that includes Buddy Bell and Robin Ventura among non-COGers (also Scott Rolen who is not yet eligible). Possibly Nettles’ best comp is his contemporary Buddy Bell… Read more »
David P
Guest
Doug – I’m going to push back a bit on Nettles. 1) Most of the “extra” games he played were from ages 41-43, when he played 318 games and put up -0.5 WAR. So perhaps he hung around a bit too long but there’s a reason for that. Which is… 2) He’s one of the few players in baseball history to regularly play 3rd base from ages 38-40. Here’s the full list of players with 300+ games and 90%+ of them being at third from ages 38-40: Nettles, Chipper Jones, Lave Cross. That’s it. And Nettles wasn’t just putting in… Read more »
Doug
Guest

Fair point. David.

If the extra PA didn’t enhance his WAR, then doesn’t make sense to be penalized for them. One could argue that, by not making positive contributions at the end of his career, Nettles was hurting his teams by occupying a lineup spot. But, to me, that’s not on Nettles – it’s the team’s fault for running him out here for all those games.

Hub Kid
Guest
no statistician, these are great – these borderline cases are rough. I really appreciate the summary of Goslin’s case, because I can see “Worthy Hall-of-Famer” but have never though that he passes my COG test, and for all of Goslin’s steady COG support there hasn’t been much discussion. I did vote for Simmons, and Goslin is pretty similar. Now I’m not as sure about Simmons, and although I don’t think I’ll vote for Goslin I can see that he’s closer than I thought. Lately I’ve been wondering about Nettles (who I’ve voted for several times), especially with the “third baseman… Read more »
e pluribus munu
Guest
Thanks for these excellent thoughts, nsb. The analysis of Goslin is particularly helpful, but the comment I want to make is about Allen. I’ve never been a fan of Allen, having lived through his era and all the headlines that built his bad reputation. But during the CoG process I’ve come to three conclusions: he was an even better hitter than I remembered, his fielding was undermined by bad managing, and precisely your last point – his behavior has to be understood in a racially volatile context. On the fielding point, I’ve always been puzzled to see that Allen came… Read more »
Voomo Zanzibar
Guest
NSB, I’ll repeat here a few on the thoughts on Ferrell that were discussed when we were doing this a year ago. His 8-year peak, from 1929-1936: 49.2 Pitching WAR, while averaging 20 Wins. None of his peripheral numbers are pretty, because he played in the most offensive era in history, with Boston and Cleveland as his home parks (105.6 park-factor during that stretch). Sandy Koufax, in his best 8 years, put up 50.2 WAR (yes, Sandy’s postseason play factors in.) Looking at other pitchers of his era, here are the WAR leaders from 1925-1945: 109.9 . Lefty Grove 67.8… Read more »
Hartvig
Guest
One thing to keep in mind about Goslin’s eye-popping numbers in 1930 is that not only was he leaving what was almost certainly the toughest park to hit home runs in the history of the game but he was going to one of the best ball parks for hitters of his era. If you look at the 1921 St. Louis Cardinals (who played in the same park) you get some idea of how good it was: 7 of 8 starters hit .307 or better (6 of them .320 or better) and their top 2 reserves (about 500 PA’s between them)… Read more »
e pluribus munu
Guest
Hartvig, I don’t think the batting average splits for those nine 1921 Cards actually show much of a park effect. Home Away Player / PA .376 …….. .262 …….Clemons /381 .339 …….. .347 …….Fournier / 661 .375 …….. .419 …….Hornsby / 674 .311 …….. .303 …….Stock / 672 .324 …….. .377 …….McHenry / 629 .345 …….. .313 …….Smith / 439 .343 …….. .311 …….Mann / 289 .269 …….. .348 …….Schultz / 304 .352 …….. .353 …….Mueller / 193 .337 …….. .337 ……. average I didn’t get crazy enough to weight these BAs by PAs to get a truer average, but… Read more »
MoP
Guest

Tiant Ashburn Goslin

Richard Chester
Guest

Goslin
Ferrell
Ashburn

Brent
Guest

Goslin, Ferrell and Brown. Thank you. Missed this site as I have been away a while.

Doug
Guest

VOTE UPDATE!

Through 19 ballots (let me know if I’ve missed your vote):

=================50% (10)
9 – Wes Ferrell, Goose Goslin
7 – Kevin Brown, Luis Tiant*
5 – Bill Dahlen*, Dave Winfield
=================25% (5)
4 – Richie Ashburn*, Graig Nettles
3 – Dick Allen
2 – Bobby Wallace*
=================10% (2)
1 – Andre Dawson*, Carlos Delgado*

* = on the bubble; all holdovers have received at least one vote each

Dr. Doom
Guest

Just so you know, Doug, when I post these updates, I always wait until there are 11 votes, then 21, then 31, etc. That way, you can really see if a guy like Bobby Wallace is “safe.” Because while he WAS safe when you posted this, he is no longer. You (and everyone else who desires to post updates) can do so as you see fit. I just thought I’d share my thought process on when I choose to post them.

e pluribus munu
Guest

This must be why they call him Doom.

Doug
Guest

Good idea, Doom, as Wallace has indeed now dropped below the 10% threshold.

oneblankspace
Guest

Voting for:

DWinfield
DAllen (RAllen)
GAnderson

oneblankspace
Guest

Voting for:

DWinfield
DAllen (RAllen)
GAnderson

My computer crashed as I was about to vote a couple hours ago; this should be the same as that vote if it went through.

Dr. Doom
Guest
Glad to see Garret Anderson get a vote. I always really liked him. I’m sure other people know this already, but his 2003 season has always fascinated me. 49 doubles, 4 triples, and 29 homers – that’s 83 XBH… yet he somehow scored only 80 R. True, he didn’t walk much (only 31 all year), but he did have over 200 hits. And besides, the guy knocked himself in 29 times, then was in scoring position 54 others, and only got knocked in 51 more times. I would imagine that this is the record for most anything (PAs, G, H,… Read more »
Doug
Guest
There are 41 seasons since 1901 of 502 PA and more XBH than runs scored. All but five of these seasons have come since 1976, with three players doing it in 1983, 1993, 1998, 2003, 2007 and 2015. There was only one such season from 1930 to 1975, by the Orioles’ Billy Gardner in 1958. David Ortiz did it in each of the last three seasons, but none before that. Anderson did it in the 2003 season you noted and also in 1998, with Bengie Molina (2007-08) and Ken Reitz (1979-80) the others to do it more than once. For… Read more »
oneblankspace
Guest

more of a strategic vote for “none of the rest of them” than a merit vote.

Scary Tuna
Guest

Ferrell, Goslin, Winfield.

Chris C
Guest

Allen, Ashburn, Goslin

Voomo Zanzibar
Guest

Numbered comments sure would be handy.
Clicking “newest” doesnt bring a comment to the top if it is in response to a previous comment.

Dr. Doom
Guest

I KNOW! It’s driving me absolutely batty. I see that there are new comments since last night… but I’ll have to scroll through the whole thread to find them. Ctrl+f used to be really helpful. In fact, if the comments were just stamped with date and time instead of how long ago,even that wouldn’t be so bad. As it is, I just miss parts of the discussion.

e pluribus munu
Guest

Voomo & Doom, I agree with you. But Andy meant this as a temporary fix, and HHS seems to have lost so many participants during its long time down last fall that I’d rather deal with it than risk knocking the site out again because a more permanent solution was rushed – especially now that we’re launched on a series of threads that are what HHS does best (hat tip to birtlecom – not to ignore that Doom’s MVP threads are bringing up participation too).

Dr. Doom
Guest

I agree 100% about not wanting to risk the site going down again; it’s just that as we have TWO posts where I’m trying to keep track of voting, there’s a lot of scrolling involved – particularly on the COG post, since there are always SO many comments. Of course, lots of comments is a GOOD thing. I’m just lamenting the ease with which things used to work. We’ll just have to learn to deal with the new normal, though, I suppose.

David P
Guest

I miss the sidebar that showed recent comments. Now I have to try and remember how many comments a post had the last time I visited the site in order to decide if I need to click on it again.

e pluribus munu
Guest

Perfectly understandable frustration. In the past, I’ve joined in posting vote tallies, and, of course, Doug does that too. I’ll try to track the CoG and post tallies when Doug seems otherwise occupied, and free you up to handle the MVP votes, if that suits you.

Scary Tuna
Guest

One thing I’ve found helpful, if you check the site daily, is to search (Ctrl+F) for the word “minutes”. That will bring you to all the comments posted within the last 24 hours. It will occasionally bring up you to a comment posted “2 days 15 minutes ago”, for example, but otherwise works pretty well. If it’s been more than 24 hours, you can also search for phrases like “1 day”. It’s not perfect, but it helps me find the newer comments quicker when threads like this one get quite long.

Voomo Zanzibar
Guest
I’m going to copy/paste, here, a long comment I made as a response to nsb, because I feel like the (un-numbered) comments in the middle of the thread get overlooked, and I put a dollop of work into this one… _______________ A few thoughts on Ferrell that were discussed when we were doing this a year ago. His 8-year peak, from 1929-1936: 49.2 Pitching WAR, while averaging 20 Wins. None of his peripheral numbers are pretty, because he played in the most offensive era in history, with Boston and Cleveland as his home parks (105.6 park-factor during that stretch). Sandy… Read more »
Doug
Guest

Reminder that tomorrow (Friday the 27th) is the last day to change your vote, should you wish to do so.

David Horwich
Guest

Nettles, Tiant, Winfield

Brendan Bingham
Guest

Vote:
Andre Dawson, Luis Tiant, Dick Allen

e pluribus munu
Guest

We’re within twelve hours of the deadline for vote changes, so I thought a vote update would be in order.

With 24 votes in, here are the current totals, as I have them:

=================50% (12)
11 – Goose Goslin
10 – Wes Ferrell
9 – Luis Tiant*
8 – Dave Winfield
7 – Kevin Brown
6 – Dick Allen
=================25% (6)
5 – Bill Dahlen*, Richie Ashburn*, Graig Nettles
=================10% (3)
2 – Bobby Wallace*, Andre Dawson*
1 – Carlos Delgado*, Garret Anderson*

* = on the bubble; all holdovers have received at least one vote each

Doug
Guest

VOTE UPDATE!

Through 24 ballots (let me know if I’ve missed your vote):

=================50% (12)
11 – Goose Goslin
10 – Wes Ferrell
9 – Luis Tiant*
8 – Dave Winfield
7 – Kevin Brown
6 – Dick Allen
=================25% (6)
5 – Richie Ashburn*, Bill Dahlen*, Graig Nettles
=================10% (3)
2 – Andre Dawson*, Bobby Wallace*
1 – Carlos Delgado*, Garret Anderson*

* = on the bubble; all holdovers have received at least one vote each

Hub Kid
Guest

Vote change: Tiant, Ferrell, Wallace
(was previously Tiant, Allen, Delgado)
Ferrell’s Koufaxian peak (plus better batting than many defense first infielders) makes him worthy to me… and it would be a shame to lose Wallace.

Doug
Guest

I will change my vote from Dahlen, Wallace, Nettles to Dahlen, Wallace, Ferrell.

bells
Guest

Well, it’s been awhile since I dusted off my COG spreadsheet, and in the analysis that I’ve used, my top guys on the ballot are as follows: Brown, Wallace, Tiant, Ferrell, Nettles. I’ve changed my mind about Brown and can no longer go ‘stats only’ on him. I’ve always been a booster of Ferrell for his uniqueness and general underratedness over history, so I’m happy to put him onto my ballot (and happy that he seems to be doing well this round!)

Wallace
Tiant
Ferrell

birtelcom
Editor

New voter!

Darn, these are tough decisions. Who made up these infernal rules, anyway? Oh, yes, well, as many Congressmen have learned, it’s often easier to wite the rules than abide by them.

My vote:
–Bobby Wallace
–Bill Dahlen
–Luis Tiant

e pluribus munu
Guest
I’ll defer to Doug on the official vote tally, but it looks to me as though Ferrell will be our latest CoG inductee. This is the third round in a row where the leader going into the home stretch was overtaken – the second time in a row that the leader was Goslin. Last time, it was Wilhelm who overtook the Goose, Hoyt himself having been overtaken by Waddell the round before. But it may be tougher for the Goose to rebound than it was for Hoyt, given the profile of the two remaining 1972 rounds to come. I would… Read more »
oneblankspace
Guest

Assuming the count is correct, 50% is at 13 votes, 25% is at 7 votes, 10% is at 3 votes.

Hartvig
Guest
To give credit where it is due, as I recall it was mosc who brought me on board the Ferrell band wagon- not that it was a particularly difficult sell. I think it would be a fascinating study to look at voting patterns over the course of this whole process to see how often the #2 guy in total votes on the hold over list got in vs someone a little lower down. I don’t have a link to the running vote tallies at hand any longer but as I recall there were multiple times that my memory tells me… Read more »
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