"We don't need no stinkin' last names." -made up quote from Edgar and Ichiro / Presswire
Now that we’ve gotten the more recent expansion teams out of the way, we’re finally to our first team with at least 30 years of history. Unfortunately, it’s one that hasn’t even been to the World Series…
Let’s take a look at who the heroes of the Mariners are.
| Rk | Player | WAR/pos | From | To |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Ken Griffey | 67.5 | 1989 | 2010 |
| 2 | Edgar Martinez | 64.4 | 1987 | 2004 |
| 3 | Ichiro Suzuki | 54.1 | 2001 | 2012 |
| 4 | Alex Rodriguez | 36.8 | 1994 | 2000 |
| 5 | Jay Buhner | 20.1 | 1988 | 2001 |
| 6 | Adrian Beltre | 19.6 | 2005 | 2009 |
| 7 | Alvin Davis | 18.1 | 1984 | 1991 |
| 8 | Bret Boone | 17.0 | 1992 | 2005 |
| 9 | Mike Cameron | 17.0 | 2000 | 2003 |
| 10 | John Olerud | 15.2 | 2000 | 2004 |
| 11 | Harold Reynolds | 13.5 | 1983 | 1992 |
| 12 | Raul Ibanez | 12.3 | 1996 | 2008 |
| 13 | Phil Bradley | 12.0 | 1983 | 1987 |
| 14 | Julio Cruz | 11.4 | 1977 | 1983 |
| 15 | Dan Wilson | 11.2 | 1994 | 2005 |
These are the WAR leaders among batters for the team. I think you could take the top 4 names there and probably be pretty close. Certainly it’s tough to think of any argument for leaving Griffey, Edgar, or Ichiro off there. There’s so much bitterness in Seattle about A-Rod that I can easily imaging him losing this popularity contest to Buhner or a few different pitchers.
Speaking of pitchers:
| Rk | Player | WAR | From | To |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Randy Johnson | 36.7 | 1989 | 1998 |
| 2 | Jamie Moyer | 31.6 | 1996 | 2006 |
| 3 | Felix Hernandez | 27.9 | 2005 | 2012 |
| 4 | Mark Langston | 18.1 | 1984 | 1989 |
| 5 | Freddy Garcia | 17.2 | 1999 | 2004 |
| 6 | Mike Moore | 16.2 | 1982 | 1988 |
| 7 | Erik Hanson | 15.6 | 1988 | 1993 |
| 8 | Jim Beattie | 13.1 | 1980 | 1986 |
| 9 | Floyd Bannister | 12.3 | 1979 | 1982 |
| 10 | J.J. Putz | 7.8 | 2003 | 2008 |
| 11 | Joel Pineiro | 7.8 | 2000 | 2006 |
| 12 | Matt Young | 7.7 | 1983 | 1990 |
| 13 | Jeff Nelson | 7.7 | 1992 | 2005 |
| 14 | Scott Bankhead | 7.7 | 1987 | 1991 |
| 15 | Brian Holman | 7.5 | 1989 | 1991 |
Well, well, this is interesting. It’s impossible to leave RJ off, and we’re quickly reminded that Jamie Moyer first rose from the ashes with the Mariners, becoming the oldest pitcher to win 20 games for the first time when he did so with them in 2001. (Yeah, he’s been setting “oldest” records for more than a decade already.)
And then there’s King Felix. And then there’s the team’s first real ace pitcher, Mark Langston, who brought them Johnson in the first place.
Some tough choices here, folks. I don’t envy you. You can also enter your own choice.
Top 4 do seem pretty clear here: Edgar, Randy, Junior, Ichiro. We don’t need no stinkin’ World Series rings, either.
Actually, I find this one pretty difficult. Hernandez may well soon surpass Johnson in WAR for the same number of seasons. ARod is one of the greatest players in the history of the game. Buhner was a big fan favorite. I would love to see Moyer up on the side of a mountain for someone. That’s an incredible amount of talent for a team that’s only be around for 35 years.
All that said, I would probably go with the same 4 as you did.
So what is Randy Johnson’s primary team, AZ or SEA?
Kind of like the Gary Carter conundrum when he went to Cooperstown. Although, it wasn’t a difficult choice for Carter to go as an Expo – clearly his best years were in Montreal.
It will be a more difficuly choice for Johnson. He played about 40 more games (200 more IP) for Seatte (130-74, 3.42, 128 ERA+, 10.6 K/9) than for Arizona (118-62, 2.83, 164 ERA+. 11.5 K/9). Tough call, but the D-Back numbers are clearly better.
4 consecutive CYAs & a WS Ring make AZ the choice.
Come on guys! With a 322 ERA+, WHIP of .984, 12.4 K/9 and a .909 winning percentage, how can he be considered as anything other than an Astro! Please disregard that he only pitched 11 games for them.
Griffey, Ichiro, Edgar are locks but I think it makes sense to argue King Felix over the Big Unit if and only if we’re restricting people to one Mt. Rushmore. Otherwise it’s the three hitters and Johnson and case closed, easy.
How often have Hall of Famers worn the same uniform number for the same franchise, with both spending a good chunk of time with that team? I don’t think the Mariners retire numbers, but in just the past 2 decades, they’ve managed to have two future HoF’ers who each wore #51….
Yogi Berra and Bill Dickey wore #8.
Bill Mazeroski wore number 9 for the Pirates, the same number worn by Paul Waner in 1940 (in the 8 previous seasons, Waner wore number 11).
Tony Lazseri and Joe Gordon both wore number 6.
Lazzeri also briefly wore number 5, before DiMaggio.
His time with them was short but Leo Durocher was the first Yankee to wear #7. Mantle was the last.
Greg Maddux and Fergie Jenkins both wore #31 for the Cubs.
The Yankees will have a similar problem when Mariano retires.
I went with Ichiro, Griffey and Edgar. I like that you are not required to pick four before submitting your vote. Randy Johnson misses here because I already picked him for the Diamondbacks.
I voted for Harold Reynolds. Not because he was a great player, but because that’s pretty much the only team most people associate him with and he’s been an analyst for so long now, he will probably have a stronger case in a decade or two if he’s still one of the talking heads on TV.
Somebody wrote in Xavier Nady. Come on.
what? Xavier Nady over Mario Mendoza. That’s over the line. His 1979 season was historic!
Some other double-retired numbers include the Expos #10 for Rusty Staub and Andre Dawson (it was unretired for the team’s move to DC.
Also the Cubs #31 for Fergue Jenkins and Greg Maddux.
There’s the unusual circumstance of Jackie Robinson’s 42, which of course is retired by all of MLB. The Cardinals retired the number again for Bruce Sutter in 2006. You can guarantee the Yankees will do the same for Mariano Rivera one day.
What I didn’t know until I read this today ( http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-rise-of-retired-numbers/ ) was that the Reds had previously retired #5 before Johnny Bench.
Willard Hershberger was a backup catcher for the Reds in the late 30s and committed suicide during the 1940 season. The grieving Reds won the World Series that year and briefly retired his #5.
An entire post could probably be done on uniform numbers different teams have “on ice” (unofficially retired… not on the outfield wall or in the rafters, but are not currently issued). I can think of five the Cardinals have “on ice” in addition to the multitude they have officially retired.
I don’t think the Cards would have really retired Sutter’s #42 had it not already been pulled from all of baseball. But he did have the cute distinction of having the stage all to himself that day. After the ceremony, the rain came pouring down and the game never even got started, so that was all ticketholders to the 9/17/06 game got to see that day (grumble)…
The 1983 White Sox had Julio Cruz and Floyd Bannister, who, by WAR were then the two greatest Mariners of all time.
I’m glad we are doing this for every team. This is my
definition of fun.
“Only” up to the Mariner’s, and this is already very
difficult.
Obviously, Junior, Edgar and Ichiro. The fourth I find
exceedingly difficult. I will eliminate RJ, because as
other’s have said, he is on the D’Backs Rushmore and I
believe only one team per player.
RJ’s elimination opens a spot for Jay Buhner. In a few
years I may say King Felix, but for now Buhner.
Not only was he popular and a great player, but he was
given to the ages when in Seinfeld, Frank Costanza complained
to “King George” about trading Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps.
“Ken Phelps bat, Ken Phelps bat, my people kept saying they
loved Ken Phelps bat”, said the King to Frank Costanza.
Crossing over into pop culture forever and for being a darn
good player, I nominate Jay Buhner for the coveted fourth spot
on the Mariner’s Mt. Rushmore.
Apologies to Jamie Moyer who finishes fifth.
Griffey, Edgar, Ichiro for top 3.
King Felix over Randy J for the 4th spot. Because Felix is representative of the future and Johnson is already on Mount Diamondback. I will try to keep to 1 team per player. We will see how that goes.
Dave Niehaus would score very high among Mariners fans. He was the voice of he franchise from its inception through the 2010 season broadcasting over 5000 games. (He died in November of that year.) He was extremely popular. He even threw out the ceremonial first pitch at SafeCo Field in 1999.
I voted for Edgar, Junior, Ichiro & Felix. It’s difficult to leave off the Big Unit, but he did leave and perform even better elsewhere. Felix will surpass him as a Mariner shortly.
Mariner fans are also very fond of Lou Piniella. He would certainly garner quite a few votes from the locals who fondly remember his guidance during the ‘glory’ days of the late 90s and early 2000’s
When I was writing this post, I actually thought of you and Piniella. How fitting that you;d show up here to argue for him.
I didn’t write in Lou when I voted, but as you know well there are many SafeCo ticket buyers who love Lou. If you include Joe Madden for the Rays, I can’t imagine Lou being skipped for the Mariners’ Rushmore, no matter how poorly he dealt with his pitching staff.
He is held in very high esteem nearly reaching the heights of the locals’ love of Dave Niehaus, your favorite baseball broadcaster of all time. 🙂
The comments here have been illuminating and helpful. For spot No. 4, it’s ARod. Felix’s time will come. That said, with all the baggage ARod’s accumulated over the last decade, I have doubts if he’ll make the Yankees’ or Rangers’ Rushmore. He deserves it somewhere.
Griffey, Ichiro, and Edgar are the obvious ones. I went with Felix for the fourth spot because I think he’ll spend the foreseeable future with the M’s, and Randy is a Diamondback to me. I’m surprised no one even mentioned Alvin Davis…he WAS “Mr. Mariner” after all! Consideration given to Buhner, ARod, Moyer, Johnson also.