A Portrait of the Pitcher as a (Cy) Young Man – Part 2

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In Part 1 of this series, nsb conjectured on what the Cy Young votes would have been had only starting pitchers been eligible in the years that relievers were chosen as Cy Young Award winners. In part 2, he considers the first eleven years of that award, from 1956 to 1966, when only one winner was chosen rather than one from each league. More after the jump.

In 1956, New York was the center of the baseball universe, with teams from that city winners of the eight previous World Series, and fourteen of the previous sixteen pennants. The Yankees, of course, were the most dominant of the New York teams, winning six of those eight World Series, but the Giants had broken their 21-year championship drought in 1954 and, in their eighth trip to the Fall Classic, the Dodgers had finally secured their first World Series crown the next year.

The Cy Young Award was initiated in 1956 to honor the most valuable pitcher in the game. That format was followed for eleven seasons until, starting in 1967, two Cy Young Award winners were chosen, for the top pitcher in each league. In considering which other pitcher might have won the CYA had two recipients been chosen since the inception of the award, I will try to put myself in the mindset of the voters at the time and focus on leaders in the traditional statistics of Wins, ERA, Strikeouts, Winning Percentage, Complete Games and Shutouts, in approximately that order, with a bias towards pitchers on winning teams, especially pennant winning teams. That said, for the benefit of our modern readers, I may buttress my arguments with occasional references to sabermetric statistics or analysis. So let’s get started.

In 1956, voters chose Don Newcombe of the NL champion Dodgers who also claimed the MVP award for his majors leading 27 wins, .794 winning percentage (from a 27-7 record), and 0.989 WHIP. My choice for the AL award goes to Whitey Ford of the world champion Yankees for his 19 wins and majors-leading 2.47 ERA.
The 1957 award went to Warren Spahn of the world champion Milwaukee Braves. Still going strong at age 36, Spahn led the majors with his 21 wins and 18 complete games. For the AL award, I’m going with Dick Donovan of the up and coming Chicago White Sox whose 2nd place finish was the team’s highest in 37 years. Donovan led the majors with his .727 winning percentage (from a 16-6 record) and led the AL with 16 complete games. He also ranked 3rd in the AL in Wins, WHIP and WAR.
In 1958, Bob Turley of the world champion Yankees was the voters’ choice. Turley led the AL with his 21 wins and 19 complete games, and led the majors with his .750 winning percentage (21-7) and 6.5 H/9. My choice for the NL award goes to Warren Spahn of the league champion Braves. As he had done in his CYA season the year before, Spahn led the majors with his 22 wins and 23 complete games from another majors-leading total of 290 IP. He also led the NL with a .667 winning percentage (22-11) and 1.148 WHIP.
The 1959 award went to Early Wynn of the AL champion White Sox for his majors-leading 22 wins. In his 19th season, the 39 year-old Wynn also led the AL in IP and ranked 3rd in Strikeouts and Winning Percentage. My choice for the NL award is Sam Jones of the 3rd place Giants. In his first season in San Francisco, Jones led the NL with his 21 Wins, 2.83 ERA and 4 Shutouts, and ranked 2nd with 209 Strikeouts.
The 1960 winner was Vern Law of the world champion Pirates. Law led the majors with 18 complete games and ranked 2nd in the NL in WHIP and 3rd in Wins and Winning Percentage. My choice for the AL award is Chuck Estrada of the 2nd place Baltimore Orioles. In his rookie season, the 22 year-old righthander led the junior circuit with 18 wins and 7.0 H/9 and ranked 3rd in SO/9 (Estrada and teammates Ron Hansen and Jim Gentile garnered ALL of the RoY votes, with Hansen the runaway winner on the strength of his 22 home runs and 86 RBI, totals no rookie shortstop before him had achieved).
The 1961 award went to Whitey Ford of the world champion Yankees. Though WAR ranks this season as only the 8th best of Ford’s career (likely because he posted the second worst ERA of his career), Whitey still posted career high in Wins, Winning Percentage, Starts and IP while leading the majors in all of those categories. For the NL award, I’m going with Warren Spahn of the 4th place Braves. Milwaukee won 10 in a row in mid-August and looked like they might get back into the pennant chase, but an 8 game losing streak in September quashed those hopes. The 40 year-old Spahn showed no signs of slowing down, leading the NL in Wins, ERA, CG, SHO and WHIP.
Voters went with Don Drysdale in 1962. The ace of the 102 win, but 2nd place, Dodgers led the majors in Wins, Starts, IP and Strikeouts. For the AL award, I’ll go with Ralph Terry of the world champion Yankees. He led the AL in Win, Starts and IP, posting career highs in all three, and ranked 2nd in BB/9 and WHIP.
In 1963, Sandy Koufax of the world champion Dodgers was the unanimous choice in the CYA vote. Koufax posted majors-leading totals in Wins, ERA, SHO, Strikeouts and WHIP, while also leading all of baseball in WAR and FIP. I can’t decide who might have been deserving of the AL award. Probably one of Camilo Pasqual (21-9, 2.46) of the 3rd place Twins, Gary Peters (19-8, 2.33) of the 2nd place White Sox, or Whitey Ford (24-7, 2.74) of the pennant-winning Yankees.
For 1964, Dean Chance took home the hardware despite playing for the 82 win, 5th place Angels. Chance led in Wins, ERA, ERA+ FIP, CG, SHO, IP and Strikeouts, while leading all of baseball in WAR. In 278.1 IP, Chance allowed all of 7 home runs, the lowest HR/9 in either league in a decade. I’ll go with Larry Jackson for the NL award. Despite playing for the 8th place Cubs, Jackson led the majors with 24 wins, while ranking 2nd in IP and 3rd in CG.
In a reprise of the 1963 voting, Sandy Koufax was again chosen unanimously as the 1965 CYA honoree. As in 1963, the Dodgers were again world champions and Koufax again led the majors in Wins, WHIP, Strikeouts, ERA and FIP, with the WHIP and Strikeouts his career bests. His strikeout total of 382 blew away Bob Feller‘s then official modern era record of 348 strikeouts¹ in 1946. My choice for the AL is Sam McDowell of the 5th place, 87-75 Cleveland Indians. McDowell compiled only a 17-11 record, but led his league in ERA and Strikeouts, both by large margins (2.18 ERA vs 2.40 for Eddie Fisher, 325 K’s vs. 226 for Mickey Lolich), as well as leading in WAR, ERA+, FIP and H/9.
One more time for Koufax in 1966, again unanimously, for the NL champion Dodgers. This time, Koufax led the majors in Wins, ERA, CG, SHO and Strikeouts, as well as in WAR, ERA+ and FIP, with his Wins, ERA, ERA+ and CG the best of his career. My choice in the AL is Jim Kaat (25-13, 2.75) of the 2nd place Twins, league leader in Wins, CG, IP, BB/9 and SO/BB, with career bests for the first three as well as for ERA and a 4th ranked 1.070 WHIP.

In part 3, nsb will look at seasons when pitchers were honored as MVP winners and conjecture who might have won that award had pitchers been excluded from consideration.

Though some researchers had argued as early as 1946 for a total of 349 strikeouts for Rube Waddell in 1904, instead of the 343 strikeouts he was originally credited with, the higher total was not accepted officially until 1969.

135 Comments

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no statistician but

1 month ago

As an addendum, Ford in 1956, Donovan in 1957, Spahn in 1958, Jones in 1959, Spahn in 1961, and Jackson in 1964 all received the highest vote total for their respective leagues in the actual voting. In 1960 and 1962 no AL pitchers received CY votes, as in the three years Koufax won unanimously. As in the previous post, pWAR is ignored. Wins, W-L %, ERA, Strikeouts, plus pitching for a winning team were the factors of most importance for choosing the phantom AL award winners in those five years of NL dominance. The lack of a clear choice in… Read more »

no statistician but

1 month ago

Reply to no statistician but

Criteria, rather.

Bob Eno

1 month ago

Reply to no statistician but

“Though WAR ranks this season as only the 8th best of Ford’s career (likely because he posted the second worst ERA of his career) . . .” Just want to comment on this. pWAR doesn’t take ERA into account at all. It uses RA/9 and then rates the defense according to the era-appropriate Baseball Info Solutions metric. To use ERA would double-count defense. The reasons for Ford’s relatively low pWAR rating in 1961 is that his 3.43 RA/9 against his specific opponents in the specific parks he played in, adjusted for an average quality defense (the ’61 Yankees were far… Read more »

Bob Eno

1 month ago

Author

Doug

1 month ago

Reply to Bob Eno

Beautifully explains why WAR could care less about a pitcher’s W-L record. Only evaluating how a pitcher did in his performance context, which is when the opponents are batting, not when his own team is at the plate.

Bob Eno

1 month ago

Reply to Bob Eno

Sorry about the double posting. I meant this just as a reply to nsb.

no statistician but

1 month ago

Reply to Bob Eno

Bob: Not to complain about your focus, but Ford in 1961 seems almost to have become your King Charles the First’s head (see Mr. Dick in David Copperfield). 1) This post ISN’T about the winners of the CY in those years. Ford won it in ’61 by actual count, 9 for Whitey, 6 for Spahn, and 2 for Lary. Of the three, Ford’s was the most impressive season at face value. Counterarguments don’t matter, as far as this exercise is concerned. Kralick and Cardwell, incidentally, the pWAR leaders, not only got no play in the CY, but neither garnered any… Read more »

Bob Eno

1 month ago

Reply to no statistician but

nsb, I think you misunderstand me. My comment was about pWAR. I knew it would be a couple of days before I had time to dig into the project of your post (I still haven’t), but I spotted this problem which seemed a continuation of what we’d discussed about pWAR in the past. I didn’t like the Yankees — how could I? I was born a Brooklyn fan — but I liked Ford, Berra, Mantle, Skowren, and I rooted passionately for Maris to get his 61st within 154 games. (I’m trying to think of a Yankee player I actually disliked… Read more »

no statistician but

1 month ago

Reply to Bob Eno

Bob:

My apologies for misinterpreting your emphasis or maybe impetus.

Someplace in the antepenultimate thread I tried to make it clear that I was done discussion pWAR, not just temporarily but permanently. I stand by that declaration. I will say that I can’t disagree with your remark that “it’s the best single starting point for player—[meaning pitcher]— assessments.” For too many it’s the only single ending place, however.

Bob Eno

1 month ago

Reply to no statistician but

I thought I’d look at the ’56 AL case before turning in, nsb. I think Ford’s a reasonable pick, adopting the perspectives of BBWAA voters, as I understand them. But it’s pretty tight, I think, between Ford and Score. You listed as your criteria: Wins, ERA, Strikeouts, Winning Percentage, Complete Games and Shutouts in descending order. Score has an edge in the first, Ford a significant lead in the second and an edge in the third, Score almost laps Ford in the fourth, Ford has an edge in the fifth, and Score a wide lead in the last. Ford’s team… Read more »

Doug

1 month ago

As an aside, the Athletics’ Henry Bolte on Monday tallied 3 walks, 3 runs, 3 stolen bases and a home run. Only the second such searchable game, and the first in 95 years.

no statistician but

1 month ago

Reply to Doug

Bob:

Trying to find a reason for the diss you mention of Herb Score in the voting in ’56, and I see nothing serious to account for it. He was great at home (12-2, 2.33) and mediocre on the road (8-7, 2,95). Ford, though, was 9-3, 2.32, and 10-3, 2,63, so that might have accounted for non-votes from writers in certain cities, but that was for the MVP, not the CY. Maybe with Wynn and Lemon also winning 20 for the Tribe, his presence was watered down, if that metaphor applies.

Bob Eno

1 month ago

Reply to no statistician but

Maybe home/road had something to do with it, nsb. I don’t know. But I’m pretty sure that a 2.95 ERA in away games when the league ERA was 4.16 is not actually mediocre. I would, instead, say that Ford had an exceptionally good record in away games, which he did.

Dr. Doom

1 month ago

I will not make any attempt to quibble with the winners for ’56, ’57, ’58, ’59, ’61, ’62, ’65, or ’66. All of those are pretty straightforward, I think. We’ll see if I ever get around to making a case for Drysdale, Marichal, Bunning, or Koufax in ’64. But I do think the case of the other two seasons is a pretty interesting one. In ’60, I love your choice for a winner! That would’ve been unconventional and a fun answer to a trivia question. The answer as to who the best pitcher in the AL that year was is… Read more »

no statistician but

1 month ago

Reply to Dr. Doom

Doom:

Perry and Estrada are the only candidates even close to viable for 1960 using my criteria, loosely or otherwise. Ditmar and Ford didn’t have enough wins for the champs, Neither did Pappas for Baltimore or Wynn and Pierce for the Chisox. A terrible year.

Dr. Doom

1 month ago

Fact unrelated to this post: The Kansas City Royals are guaranteed a losing season this year, by virtue of their 82nd loss. The Royals have been outscored by 88 runs this year: worst in their division, 2nd-worst in the awful American League. The Royals are in last place in their division. — The Chicago Cubs are guaranteed at least a .500 season, by virtue of their 81st win. The Cubs have outscored their opponents by 128 runs this year: 2nd in their division, 3rd in the powerful National League. The Cubs are in second place in their division. — As… Read more »

no statistician but

1 month ago

With three weeks or so remaining in the season, here are some random comments about 2026: The Brewers, leading the NL in BA and the majors in Wins, rank dead last in HRs. Tampa Bay, leading the AL in Wins and the majors in BA, ranks 25th in HRs. The Yankees pitching staff has a collective 132 ERA+. Next highest in the AL is Detroit at 116. Atlanta leads the NL at 119. Maybe Cal Raleigh is really on the mend. His BA is up to .183, and he’s hit .282 in his last 24 games. Disregarding Raleigh altogether, when… Read more »

Paul E

1 month ago

Reply to no statistician but

NSB, I have no idea if this is correct or not but it is the opinion of B-R that the Milwaukee flame thrower is no longer a rookie? I don’t think he is, honestly, with only 66 IP in 2025 Jacob MisiorowskiPosition: Pitcher Bats: Right • Throws: Right 6-7, 201lb (201cm, 91kg) Team: Milwaukee Brewers (majors) Born: April 3, 2002 (Age: 24-161d) in Blue Springs, MO us Draft: Drafted by the Milwaukee Brewers in the 2nd round of the 2022 MLB June Amateur Draft from Crowder College (Neosho, MO). High School: Grain Valley HS (Grain Valley, MO) School: Crowder College (Neosho, MO)… Read more »

Author

Doug

1 month ago

Reply to Paul E

I think the other factor is how long he spent on the 26 man roster. Looking at his game logs, looks like he was on the roster for 3½ months of the season, or 3 months if he was on IL or sent down first half of August (no games during that period).

Paul E

1 month ago

Reply to no statistician but

NSB,
I believe Misiorowski exceeded rookie limits (50IP in 2024) with 66 IP ……. i thought it was a higher threshold previously (90IP) but….i guess not any longer

Doug

1 month ago

Reply to no statistician but

Sal Stewart for RoY. Only the fifth rookie aged 22 or younger with a 30 HR/100 RBI season, and only the 15th rookie at any age with those totals. Of the ten rookies with those totals since 1947, nine won RoY award (Al Rosen in 1950 is the exception, when he lost to Walt Dropo with 34 HR, 144 RBI and .961 OPS ).

Paul E

1 month ago

Reply to Doug

Doug,
I recall when Ron Kittle (35 HR/100 RBI) won the the AL RoY award over Julio Franco in 1983, Bill James made a big to-do over the difference in their ages and was adamant that Franco (22 y.o. with a fake birth certificate) would have the better career than Kittle (25 y.o). Turned out they were only seven months apart and Franco had the better career anyway

Doug

1 month ago

Reply to Paul E

I believe Franco and Roger Clemens hold the record for the longest span (23 years) between their first and last times facing each other as pitcher and batter.

That span, of course, is limited by how much the careers of the two players overlap. One pair that completely maxed out on that span is Boom-Boom Beck and Al Simmons, who faced each other in Beck’s debut game and, 20 years later, in Simmons’ finale.

Dr. Doom

1 month ago

Reply to no statistician but

It’s not inherently that impressive that the Brewers are first in average and last in homers; those two things don’t HAVE to go together. Same thing with homers and winning… you could just have good pitching and defense. Or average and winning, for that matter, since you could just have a high-average team. What makes it a special season is that, in spite of being last in homers, they’re third in runs scored! They’re last in homers, and yet third in runs. I don’t have a Stathead subscription, but I’m willing to bet it’s been an age since that happened.… Read more »

Dr. Doom

1 month ago

Reply to Dr. Doom

Correction!!!
Brewers now SECOND in runs scored after their 20-run scorching of the Reds tonight. They’re two runs ahead of the Nationals now, 762-760.

Last edited 1 month ago by Dr. Doom

Bob Eno

1 month ago

Reply to Dr. Doom

Hi Doom, Interestingly timed post, given Milwaukee’s 20-0 drubbing of the Reds tonight — 4 HR, but they’re still last in the league. (A few more games like tonight’s, though, and I don’t see how they can regain their form.) Your comment put me in mind of the way the Old Orioles changed baseball in the years after 1893. Of course, home runs weren’t remotely as plentiful then, but it was far from the dead-ball era that followed. For example, in 1894 Boston had 103 HR and the O’s were dead last with 33, but they were just a few… Read more »

Doug

1 month ago

James Wood is one double away from posting his second straight 30 double/30 HR/80 BB season. Who else has done that age 23 or younger? Only Ted Williams and Mike Trout (Mel Ott also did it twice, but not consecutively). Wood has also stolen 33 bases (and counting) over those two seasons, one more than Trout and Williams combined. Speaking of Trout, he currently has about the same number of games, PA and AB as last year, and has more than doubled his WAR total year-over-year. How he’s done that isn’t immediately apparent from his stat line: biggest change is… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Doug

Tom

1 month ago

Reply to Doug

Trout stole 49 bases over his consecutive 30/30/80 seasons

Dr. Doom

1 month ago

Reply to Tom

You looked at the wrong years. The two 30/30/80 seasons for Trout were ’14 and ‘ ’15 (27 steals), not ’13 and ’14 (49 steals). Trout misses the list in ’13 because he hit only 27 homers. Otherwise, he would’ve had three straight.

Bob Eno

1 month ago

Reply to Doug

On Trout 2025/2026, I think the major boost to Trout’s WAR has been the poor offensive context of the AL as a whole. Trout’s dWAR is certainly up because he was in the field (although he was subpar at his position), but his biggest boost has been in oWAR, which jumped from 2.0 to 4.7 for very similar OPS and TB records. (I don’t think WAR knows about SO, but I’m glad to be corrected.) Trout’s oWAR components include a rise of +12 for his batting runs (Rbat) and +3 for his stolen bases: together he went from +12 to… Read more »

Doug

1 month ago

Kevin Gausman has joined a dubious group. He passed 2000 IP this year and has yet to record a 15 win season, or a 200 IP season.

Of course, he could get out of the group before he retires, but as of now he joins just three others in the modern era with that trifecta.

no statistician but

1 month ago

Reply to Doug

pWAR: Gausman 29.2 Johnson 29.4 Sanchez 30.1 Mitchell 20.5 Yet Mitchell, who won 125 games, completed 145 out of 277 starts. Gausman has nearly 4 times the strikeouts of Mitchell and over double the Home Runs allowed. In two WS Mitchell had a .087 ERA in 10.1 IP. In one WS Gausman had a 4.26 ERA in 12.2 IP and 2 losses. Sanchez, whose 2013 season is the best year any of the four put up, almost duplicated Gausman’s WS figures: 4.38 ERA in 12.1 IP and 2 losses. Johnson was a journeyman swing man back when they existed. He… Read more »

Bob Eno

1 month ago

Reply to no statistician but

The only thing I remembered about Mitchell was the photo that shows him standing on first base, watching Bill Wambsganss complete the only unassisted triple play in WS history.

Mitchell came into the game in relief in the fourth with the game at 0-7 and hit into that triple-play in the fifth. He stayed to finish up the loss. When he came up again in the eighth he grounded into a double play. Five outs in two PA is necessarily a WS record; I wonder whether it has ever been matched in a regular season game.

Author

Doug

1 month ago

Reply to Bob Eno

Another tidbit about Mitchell: he is the last NL pitcher to finish his rookie season (it was 1916) with complete games in 10 or more consecutive starts. You can amaze your friends knowing that and knowing that the last to do it in the AL is Sam Gibson in 1926.

Last edited 1 month ago by Doug

Doug

1 month ago

Reply to Bob Eno

And, another Mitchell trivia note. He recorded seasons with 10 or more CG for 5 different franchises, most in the modern era. He shares that distinction with several others, including exactly one expansion era pitcher. Who is the most recent pitcher to match Mitchell’s “accomplishment”?

Bob Eno

1 month ago

Reply to Doug

While everyone’s thinking about that, Doug, I want to note that you, Doug, have just established a new standard: Most superlative stats discovered for an obscure NL pitcher with a debut prior to the lively ball era!

Doug

1 month ago

Reply to no statistician but

It is quite striking how similar the stat lines are for all four, strikeouts and CG, of course, excepted.

Last edited 1 month ago by Doug

Dr. Doom

1 month ago

Reply to Doug

Anibal Sanchez is the name I can’t get over on this list. That dude won an ERA title in 2013! And not only did he win the ERA title that year, he won it over and against his teammates, who might be one of the greatest “what if” rotations of all-time! Sanchez was probably the 4th-best starter on the roster… considering that rotation featured Justin Verlander, Max Scherzer, and Rick Porcello. Those four pitchers, along with Doug Fister, combined to make 156 starts (Jose Alvarez made the other six starts). It puts me in mind of the 2005 White Sox,… Read more »

Paul E

1 month ago

Reply to Dr. Doom

Doom,

“And it’s not like these were the Wheeze Kids Phillies getting a bunch of stars after their primes………..”

Maybe more like the 1950 Whiz Kids who never won another pennant?

Bob Eno

1 month ago

Reply to Dr. Doom

“Wait… how did Anibal Sanchez NOT win 15 games when he won the ERA title?!” Doom, In the NL Kershaw won only two more games than Sanchez (and lost one more) while winning the ERA title with a figure 0.74 lower than Sanchez, four more starts, two more CGs, and 54 more IP. That’s the equivalent of six additional nine-inning games beyond Sanchez with an ERA of –0.67 (that’s – as in “minus”), and his incremental W-L record was 2-1. Sanchez was pitching home games in a hitter’s park while Kershaw was in a pitcher’s park, but Kershaw’s OPS+ was… Read more »

Doug

1 month ago

Reply to Dr. Doom

Appears Sanchez was just plain unlucky not to win 15. But, it wasn’t with his losses, of which there is only one that clearly qualifies as a hard luck loss, when he allowed one run over 6 innings on July 19th against the Royals. The unlucky part is mainly with his NDs. He has no fewer than five of those in which he recorded 5+ IP allowing 2 runs or less. Most glaring are 2 runs allowed over 7.2 IP on Aug 5 against Cleveland, and 1 run allowed over 6.2 IP on Aug 21 against Minnesota. His first and… Read more »

Dr. Doom

1 month ago

OK… on to my point that I swore I’d try to get to. The 1964 National League might be one of the greatest seasons ever for individual pitchers. There was no obvious, dominant #1 pitcher. Nor even a pack of two or three that separated themselves from the pack. Instead, we have superduperstar pitchers (and a host of pretty dern good pitchers) putting up fabulous seasons at the same time. [Projected W-L is based on ERA+ and Innings Pitched.] Don Drysdale seems like an obvious candidate as the player with the best season. He ranks as the best by bWAR… Read more »

Paul E

1 month ago

Reply to Dr. Doom

Doom,
While reviewing/fine-tooth combing 1964 NL pitching stats, numbers indicate none other than 43-year old Warren Spahn with the worst OPS (.814) surrendered amongst qualified pitchers. Next guy (Dennis Bennett) is down at .761.

Dr. Doom

1 month ago

Reply to Paul E

Yeah, but once you’re 43, you can’t be criticized anymore. You’re pitching to guys half your age! What’s crazy about it is, Spahn just clearly fell off the age cliff that year. The three prior seasons, by bWAR, were 4.0, 5.6, 4.0! That’s pretty amazing for a guy in his 40s. AND he led the league in complete games all three of those seasons! In the first of those, his age-40 season, he also led the league in Wins, ERA, and Shutouts. Then, suddenly, in ’64, he was just bad; worst starter in baseball. The Braves cut him loose, and… Read more »

Bob Eno

1 month ago

Reply to Dr. Doom

“Yeah, but once you’re 43, you can’t be criticized anymore.” I wish someone had told my wife! Your point about Spahn is absolutely right. To get a fuller sense of how shocking Spahn’s season in ’64 was you need to start the timeline at his age-35 season. Over his eight age 35-42 seasons, Spahn won 20 games seven times and led the league in CG the last seven seasons — his age 42 W-L record tied his career best (23-7), which he’d first reached in 1953, at age 32. In 1963 we didn’t know we were entering a brief “pitcher’s… Read more »

no statistician but

1 month ago

Can anyone remember as far back as last off-season? Bo Bichette? Headlines, headlines! 126 Mil for three years from the Mets, a team that wouldn’t bid on Pete Alonso, who shuffled off to Baltimore for 5 years and 155 Mil? Bichette has produced 0.7 WAR with an OPS+ of 97, while the team has soared like a rock, from its 83-79 finish in 2025 to a current 69-83 with ten games left. Alonso meanwhile has put up typical figures, a touch above his average, 37 HRs, a league leading 102 Rbis, 4.3 WAR and 143 OPS. The O’s, despite the… Read more »

Dr. Doom

1 month ago

Reply to no statistician but

I would say that Adrian Beltre’s first year in Seattle was VERY much viewed this way. He went from a monster season with the Dodgers in 2004 – a season SO good it was almost good enough to steal an MVP from Prime Barry Bonds – to being worth a lot less a year later. His OPS+ dropped from 163 to 93 by moving to Seattle. Now, of course, he was saved from sub-average play by continuing to be one of the greatest defensive 3B of all-time. But what ultimately saved him was leaving Seattle altogether. His OPS+ in 5… Read more »

Tom

1 month ago

Reply to no statistician but

The 1991-92 Dodgers come to mind. That one was partly caused by injury, but it was mostly due to bad decisions. In 91, LA finished 1 game back, at 93-69. They made headlines by trading their #2 starter, Tim Belcher (4.3 WAR in 1991) and a young John Wetteland to Cincinnati to get Eric Davis. The hope was that getting Davis to team with Darryl Strawberry would electrify the team and push them over the top after two straight second place finishes. Strawberry & Davis did lead the team, except they led them down the drain, as injuries derailed them.… Read more »

Paul E

1 month ago

Reply to no statistician but

NSB,
In the past off-season, IIRC, the Phillies thought they had a deal with Bichette for 6 years/$210M ? Yeah, the Phillies would probably do that again, let him play 2B, keep Stott on 3B and let Bohm (and his annually misleading 85+ RBI) pursue free agency. But, with another $42M guaranteed, I doubt Bichette and his reps would have the testicles to chance leaving coming off his putrid 2026 performance

Doug

1 month ago

Reply to no statistician but

Adam Dunn going to the White Sox in 2011. Maybe the rest of baseball knew what was coming for Dunn as it wasn’t a huge windfall for him, going from $12M in 2010 to $14M in 2011.

Doug

1 month ago

Reply to no statistician but

Looking at Bichette’s most similar players through age 27 (last season), none regressed this badly at age 28. Closest were Carlos Correa (1.3 WAR) and Asdrubal Cabrera (1.7 WAR). If Bichette had played this season at SS (as those two comps did), his WAR would be about 1.0 or 1.1, instead of 0.7. Bichette started his career with above average range factor, albeit in only 70 games aged 21 and 22. He was right at league average the next year, then was consistently half a chance worse than league average in 2023, 2024 and 2025. This year, more of the… Read more »

Paul E

1 month ago

Reply to Doug

I believe a lot of these guys “press” a little too hard in their first seasons in new surroundings whether after a trade or free agent signing. Some guys have had great/other-worldly seasons (Robinson ’66; Carlton & Allen ’72 come to mind). IIRC Ivan Rodriguez helped the Marlins win a WS and then helped the Leyland Tigers improve greatly to the point of an AL pennant. There are probably a few I’m missing, but it ain’t always hearts and flowers adjusting to new teammates, ownership, and fans. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Bichette rebound to a .290/25/100 season next… Read more »

Paul E

1 month ago

Just saw an article detailing 52-year old Ichiro Suzuki tossing a 127-pitch, 17K/1BB , 5-hitter versus an all-star team of Japanese high-school girls. No big deal – I’ll bet Nolan Ryan would have pitched a no-hitter at 52 against these young ladies 🙁

Bob Eno

27 days ago

Apart from the 2020 season, when the 60-game schedule led MLB to open up the post-season to 8 teams per league rather than 5, there has never been an MLB team to reach the postseason without a winning regular season until today, when Houston closed out its .500 season and qualified for a wildcard slot. (Thirty-two years ago, in 1994, it seemed inevitable that a sub-.500 team would reach the postseason in the AL West, Texas led the division with a 52-62 record when the season crashed and the postseason was canceled.) Among the interesting features of Houston’s division championship… Read more »

Doug

27 days ago

Reply to Bob Eno

I don’t think it would be a terrible idea if the leagues went back to two divisions. Since we have six playoff teams now, we’re probably stuck with that number. So, two division champs and four wildcard spots. Presumably, in a two-division setup with seven or eight teams in a division, chances of a .500 team winning a division become far less likely. And, if you’re a division winner, you’re through to the division round instead of possibly having to run the wildcard gauntlet. With the three division format, in addition to a .500 team winning a division, there is… Read more »

Paul E

26 days ago

Reply to Doug

Doug,

If they expanded to 32 teams, a two-division setup could work as:

8 x 8 games versus non-division opponents and 7 x 14 versus division opponents

BUT, with inter-league play, that idea goes to hell in a handbag. And, last but not least, how about the Phillies playing and AL team (Tampa) in the last series of the season trying to make the playoffs?

Dr. Doom

26 days ago

Reply to Paul E

I agree 100% with this idea. Been saying it for years. I don’t know why MLB is not working on this ASAP.

Paul E

26 days ago

Reply to Dr. Doom

Doom,

Yeah – you’d figure the franchise ffes alone would be enough incentive for these guys.

Dr. Doom

26 days ago

Reply to Dr. Doom

Several years ago, I wrote a piece for the site here about how we’re overdue for expansion. It’s more relevant now than ever! We’re nearly 30 years into a totally stable MLB. Nobody’s moved since the Nationals, and that’s been over 20 years, and it’s been nearly 30 since MLB expanded. Here’s the link, if you want to see the arguments I was making six years ago:
https://www.highheatstats.com/2020/11/mlb-a-time-for-change/

Doug

26 days ago

Reply to Paul E

How about:
7 x 12 = 84
8 x 5½ = 44 (i.e. 4 teams x 5 games + 4 teams x 6 games)
16 x 2 = 32
1 x 2 = 2 (natural rival)
TOTAL = 162

With an even number of teams in each league, schedule could go back to the old days of division matchups exclusively for the last 3 or 4 weeks of the season.

Last edited 26 days ago by Doug

Doug

27 days ago

Happy Birthday to Bobby Shantz, now 101 years young. Shantz was the AL MVP in 1952 with 24-7, 2.48, while in the NL, Robin Roberts was 2nd in MVP voting, despite 28-7, 2.59 in 330 IP with a miniscule 1.2 BB/9. Who beat him out? It was, cringe, the Cubs 35 year-old left fielder Hank Sauer, with 37 HR and 121 RBI, both majors leading totals. That would have made for an interesting choice for a single CYA winner, though hard to believe it wouldn’t have gone to Roberts with the extra wins and 50 more IP. With the death… Read more »

Last edited 27 days ago by Doug

Bob Eno

26 days ago

Reply to Doug

I loved Bobby Shantz when I was a kid. He was a little guy like me and he’d won 24 games (for a meh team!). Then I grew up (sorta) to be just his height (although at 101 I bet he’s now shorter than me — even though I’m now shorter than me too).

no statistician but

27 days ago

How diminished a season was 2026 in MLB? One measure might be carryover from 2025 in terms of statistical leaders. In pitching the top 5 finishers in pWAR, ERA, Wins, Strikeouts, and ERA+ were entirely different from season to season except for Yoshinobu Yamamoto, who finished fifth both years in ERA and ERA+. In batting the top five finishers showed complete turnover in oWAR, BA, and OPS+, while Kyle Shwarber alone finished in the top five in Runs and HRs both years. He and Pete Alonso repeated in RBIs. I doubt that such a staggering across the board changeover from… Read more »

Dr. Doom

26 days ago

Reply to no statistician but

I will take issue with the premise; why does a changeover in leaders indicate a league is diminished? Might it not, conversely, be a sign of STRENGTH that it’s not dominated over and over by the same people? If I played baseball with the local elementary school kids, I’d dominate in every statistical category, every single day. That wouldn’t prove the league was strong; it might, in fact, be a sign of a WEAK league. (Look, for example, at the 1880s or the mid-1940s, notably and obviously lesser leagues; I didn’t do the work… but I’d bet there’s a lot… Read more »

no statistician but

26 days ago

Reply to Dr. Doom

Doom: I was mostly referring to the plethora of injuries that besieged the big names of 2025—Judge, Ohtani, Raleigh, Soto, Fried—and the rather large number of top performers whose stats sank into the fair-to middling range or worse—Skanes, Skubal, Peralta, Bichette, Seager, etc, but especially Raleigh. Further, as leaders, Crow-Armstrong and Yordan Alvarez to me lack the weight and presence conveyed by Judge and Ohtani, with their histories of superior performance in multiple seasons, which is not to say that the new names—Crow-Armstrong and your favorite Misiorowski, for instance—didn’t create a lot of talk and excitement. Will either or both… Read more »

Bob Eno

26 days ago

Reply to no statistician but

I think there are several couple of issues to consider here. The first concerns the actual statistics, the second is their implications. In terms of the first, when I look at the MLB leaderboards for pWAR in 2025 and 2026 I see Christopher Sanchez at the top with 8.1 pWAR both years, so I’m puzzled by nsb’s initial premise. I also see Cam Schlittler, Jacob Misiorowski, and Parker Messick in the top 5 — all in their first full seasons. I think it would be a mistake to consider the arrival of top-flight rookie talent to be a sign of… Read more »

Last edited 26 days ago by Bob Eno

Doug

25 days ago

Max Scherzer pitched Toronto’s final game of the season on 3 days rest and went 7+ innings and 114 pitches for the win, whiffing seven, walking one and allowing just one run. It was the first regular season start in his career pitching on 3 days rest, and the most pitches he has thrown in a game in six years. Scherzer joins Warren Spahn (1963), Phil Niekro (1985) and Randy Johnson (2008) as pitchers aged 42 or older to start and the win their team’s final game of the season with 7+ IP allowing one run or none. Thus, if… Read more »

Last edited 25 days ago by Doug

Dr. Doom

25 days ago

Reply to Doug

One of the most fun storylines of the final day of the regular season was whether Scherzer would catch-and-pass Justin Verlander on the all-time strikeouts list. He didn’t quite make it… but Verlander finished with 3560 and Scherzer with 3557. I find it quite unlikely that anyone will ever retire squeezed right between the two of them. And there’s something beautifully wonderful about these two former teammates being “neighbors” on the all-time strikeout list. It’s not quite 2002 Expos teammates Javy Vazquez and Bartolo Colon being LITERALLY right next to one another (at 2536 and 2535 strikeouts, respectively). But they… Read more »

Author

Doug

25 days ago

Reply to Dr. Doom

Scherzer can take solace in ranking 2nd in SO/9 (10.5) in careers of 3000+ IP, trailing only Randy Johnson (10.6). At, present, Chris Sale or Gerrit Cole would seem to be the only pitchers with a chance of overtaking Scherzer, but it’s a long shot that either will get to 3000 IP.

Dr. Doom

25 days ago

Reply to Doug

Only 2,759.1 innings to go, and The Miz has got this in the bag!

Doug

25 days ago

Opening night of the post-season: -Ben Rice records second post-season game with a grand slam, another HR and two more hits, matching the feat of Will Clark on Oct 4, 1989, which was also the first game of that post-season. Both had a single and double for their other hits, and both totaled 6 RBI. -Fernando Tatis Jr. hits the 17th “first pitch of game” home run in a post-season game, and the first in a Wildcard round game. Pete Rose, in game 5 of the 1972 World Series, hit the only such home run prior to the inception of… Read more »

Last edited 25 days ago by Doug

Paul E

25 days ago

Reply to Doug

Kind of weird but I don’t recall Mr. October missing the first WS of his career (and, not a problem, ‘somehow’ the A’s beating the vaunted Big Red Machine). Sarcasm intended…..

Doug

24 days ago

Reply to Paul E

For those who don’t know, Jackson tore his hamstring in a collision with Bill Freehan when stealing home (a delayed double-steal) in Game 5 of the 1972 ALCS, and thus missed the World Series. According to A-I, that is the only steal of home in his career.

When asked after the game about the decision to send Jackson, A’s manager Dick Williams said he “would sleep like a baby tonight; wake up and cry every two hours!”.

Last edited 24 days ago by Doug

Bob Eno

24 days ago

And now a word from the Connor Thomas Fan Club. You may remember that the fan club formed in late July after Atlanta manager Walt Weiss put 28 year-old Thomas, who had to that point a total of 9 IP in the Majors, into a tie game against the Mets and allowed him to absorb 11 runs (all earned) before replacing him with a position player. The Braves then released Thomas, as the Brewers had in 2025. Thomas’s season ERA stood at 21.32, somehow worse than his ERA with the Brewers had been: 20.25. Thomas’s career seemed over after four… Read more »

Paul E

23 days ago

Reply to Bob Eno

Bob,
Just an observation but perhaps your club’s membership list should be strongly considered for referral to psychiatric counseling services 🙂

Bob Eno

23 days ago

Reply to Paul E

Consider it done, Paul!

Paul E

23 days ago

Reply to Bob Eno

Bob,

Hey, not bragging here but, I was a big Kelvim Escobar fan. 🙂

I have a good friend of many years whose favorite player was Tim McCarver; another who thought Buster Posey was the ‘bee’s knees”. Like, why not Johnny Bench in lieu of these two?

Some of this fanstuff is inexplicable but with 750+ guys to choose from every year, “random” does to tend to lead…..

Bob Eno

23 days ago

Reply to Paul E

My guy was Carl Furillo, Paul. His framed ’57 card sits on my desk. Come to think of it, yesterday was the 70th anniversary of the game that sealed my Skoonj devotion.

Paul E

23 days ago

Reply to Bob Eno

Bob,

I’m sure you played this game:

LF Smith, Lonnie
SS Furcal
RF Clark, Jack
1B Allen, Dick
CF Beltran
3B Rolen
C Daulton
2B Franco, Julio Cesar
P Jenkins

C Simmons,Ted
UI Caminiti
UI Sandberg
UI Tulo
OF Bonds, Bobby

P Blyleven, Carlton, Escobar

If the 2001 Mariners could win 116 my guys are going 125-37 – even with the Elm Street Tigers rounding out the bench and bullpen 🙂

no statistician but

22 days ago

Reply to Paul E

Here’s a anti-listing of a lineup of players, some prior to my time, whom I genuinely dislike:

C Bench
1B Palmiero
2B Hornsby
SS Aparicio
3B Boggs
LF Barrry Bonds
CF Cobb
RF Sosa

UT Rose

P Wynn
P Ryan
P Newhouser
P Mclain
P Clemens

They’d beat your guys 3 out of 4, probably. Also, unfortunately.

As in so many field of endeavor, being a jerk, bastard, or cheater corresponds to success.

Bob Eno

21 days ago

Reply to no statistician but

nsb, Some of the players on your list I’ve always pictured as non-jerks (which is a lot like a non-bastard, I think) and non-cheaters. I’d be interested to hear the scuttlebutt I missed on those players: Bench, Aparicio, Boggs, Wynn, Ryan, and Newhouser.

I also was eager to ask for scuttlebutt because I think I’ve never actually written or typed the word before!

no statistician but

21 days ago

Reply to Bob Eno

I didn’t mean that all my dislikes were based on strong negatives. Ryan and Newhouser I dislike because they’re overrated, to my mind, by circumstances having nothing to do with character. Boggs and Bench, though? Off the field both lived less than sterling lives. The story of Bench’s first marriage and his deliberate self promotion early in his career, while I was trapped by circumstance in SW Ohio, is dealt with summarily in his SABR bio, but the fact that he was married five times as well, makes his non-jerkdom a debatable subject. Bogg’s not-so-secret four year affair isn’t of… Read more »

Bob Eno

21 days ago

Reply to no statistician but

I see. Well, I can’t argue with your feelings, nsb: we each are entitled to our own. I’d argue with one point of fact, however, concerning Wynn’s quest for 300 wynns. You refer to “the pathetic nature of the hubris in the endeavor,” but I don’t recall it that way and the stats for that final 1963 stint with the Indians suggests quite the opposite: a 2.28 ERA (168 ERA+) and 1.7 pWAR in 55 IP. I think he made his case (even if his sole win, his 300th, turned out to be the poorest of his 20 appearances). If… Read more »

no statistician but

21 days ago

Reply to Bob Eno

Re Wynn: I was referring to the previous season in Chicago. Listened to a lot of White Sox games that summer. Wynn was 5-7, pitching erratically through July (team record 7-8 in his starts). Needed 3 Ws to make 300. In the last two months he went 2-8 (team went 3-9) with 6 CG losses. Lopez kept leaving him in hoping for the win, rather than relieving him as he ordinarily would have, but the Sox weren’t going anyplace that year. Wynn got two of the three, but otherwise kept losing, usually late. He was released. No one wanted him… Read more »

Bob Eno

21 days ago

Reply to no statistician but

I went there earlier, nsb, because after the 300th I’d stopped paying attention. But I remember the events leading up to 300; I was following closely. He pitched fine in his initial starts but took a hard-luck loss and a couple of lousy-luck NDs. Then the fluke lousy win. Lots of pitchers end their careers as Wynn did through ’62 (think of Spahn, Sutton, Phil Niekro . . . already wrote about Carlton). I think the only thing that distinguishes Wynn is that he came back for a very strong final half-season, mop-up or not. Not sure why you’d single… Read more »

no statistician but

21 days ago

Reply to Bob Eno

If you liked Wynn, then there’s nothing more to say, except, perhaps, that I’d guess you’re in the minority. As for Carlton as a better choice, he was basically off my radar. You can’t like or dislike things that you’re indifferent to. As an aside—counterintuitively, as you undoubtedly would say—for football I was a Chicago Cardinals fan growing up. The Bears were that gang of dirty players led by George Halas, who encouraged foul play—not an impression but a fact. Our local TV downstate showed alternating Bears and Cards games back in the day when the networks did regional, and… Read more »

Bob Eno

21 days ago

Reply to no statistician but

TO: Senility Inc.
In response to your survey request, we rate NSB Memory *****.

Paul E

20 days ago

Reply to no statistician but

As a kid growing up in Philadelphia, Kuharik brought in Ollie to run back kickoffs (1966?) at like age 35. That SF Dons team went undefeated on 1953(?), couldn’t go a bowl, and dropped the sport. Matson was Bo Jackson and Herschel Walker long before they were a glimmer in their fathers’ eyes

Paul E

20 days ago

Reply to Bob Eno

Bob,

I believe Carlton’s late career motivation was to somehow recover earnings stolen by his ‘agent’? Not sure…. when he reverted to the mean in 1973 (20 losses, IIRC?), the Philadelphia press decided to become his collective pitching coach. Steve shut them out for the balance of his career

Paul E

20 days ago

Reply to no statistician but

I don’t know about 3 out of 4 but 97 out of 162 would be a great achievement. Didn’t know Bench was persevering enough to go to the altar 5 times but sounds like Jimmy Piersal type cognition issues. No Arod on 3B?

no statistician but

20 days ago

Reply to Paul E

Your mention of Piersall raises an interesting point: can we say we dislike someone for being a total jerk when he’s emotionally disturbed? Like everyone else, I saw the movie as a kid and was willing to give him more than the benefit of the doubt during his playing days, but later on it became clear that he used his reputation for a dark sort of weirdness to evade criticism for some truly objectionable commentary when he was an announcer. Oh, it’s OK, he’s just off his meds today. His SABR bio, sanitized s it is, tells the tale of… Read more »

Bob Eno

20 days ago

Reply to no statistician but

What you say about Piersall rings true, nsb. But he was seriously bipolar and you don’t have to be off your meds for their effects to lapse. I always cut him a lot of slack and hoped he didn’t end up taking his own life, which is not an uncommon outcome for people worn down with recurrent bipolar depression. I was at the Polo Grounds on the day that he hit his 100th HR. When he saw it go over the fence as he rounded first he turned around and ran backwards the rest of the way home (still carefully… Read more »

Doug

22 days ago

As the Braves’ game 3 starter, Ray Kerr established a record as the oldest pitcher (age 32) to make his post-season debut starting a sudden-death game. He is the 20th pitcher with such a post-season debut, all but three in the past 15 seasons. Teams employing such starting pitchers are 9-11 in those games.

Paul E

17 days ago

Off the beaten path (again), but has anyone ever scored fewer runs in a season than Leo Cardenas’ 25 runs (1972) in as many PA’s (600) or games (150) in the live ball era? Pretty hard to believe….

Bob Eno

16 days ago

Reply to Paul E

Apparently the answer is no, Paul. (I asked AI whether anyone had scored fewer than 26 runs; it said no; I pointed out that it was wrong and asked it to do better asking the question you asked — this is the way I use AI these days.) But AI did point me to an example almost or perhaps more difficult to believe. Mario Guerrero in 1978 scored 27 runs for the A’s in 143 games (546 PA), but with a .275 BA (vs. .223 for Cardenas). Despite his low runs scored, he earned 1.7 oWAR (lousy defense lowered his… Read more »

Doug

16 days ago

Reply to Paul E

Cardenas (.223/.272/.283) takes the record easily for both of those qualifiers. 150 G: 2nd is Alvaro Espinoza (.224/.258/.274) with 31 runs for the 1990 Yankees 600 PA: 2nd is Billy Gardner (.225/.271/.298) with 32 runs for the 1958 Orioles Espinoza had only 472 PA in his 150 games, so Gardner is much more comparable with 607 PA in 151 games. Billy Purtell (36 runs in 1910) has the deadball era record for 150 G & 600 PA seasons. Since Cardenas, the fewest runs in such seasons is 40 by Ken Reitz in 1976. Chris Johnson’s 43 runs in 2014 are… Read more »

Last edited 16 days ago by Doug

Paul E

16 days ago

Reply to Doug

Doug, Bob,

Thanks for the quick responses. IIRC, Baseball Digest did an annual spring training survey of ML players re ‘who’s the best at each position’ and Cardenas was considered the AL’s best SS after the 1971 season. Little did they know……..

Doug

11 days ago

Reply to Paul E

That’s quite the memory, from a magazine article more than 50 years ago. Bravo!

Paul E

9 days ago

Reply to Doug

here you go…. results published in this issue (July 1972). IIRC, Baseball Digest released their issues well ahead of the actual “issue date”. Probably was available in May

no statistician but

15 days ago

Reply to Paul E

Paul et all:

Cardenas hit six homers, meaning he was driven in only 19 times. He batted eighth in the order most of the time. The Angels pitching staff drove in 19 runs total, but 13 came from one player, Clyde Wright, and the leadoff batter, Sandy Alomar, Sr., drove in 24 in 155 games.

Point being that Cardenas got on base over 160 times, exclusive of HRs, and was driven in 19 times. I doubt he was as pathetic as the people in the batting order behind him.

Doug

15 days ago

Reply to no statistician but

Cardenas scored his runs:
17 – driven in by teammates, which were (pitchers bolded):
**** 3 – Ken Berry, Ken McMullen
**** 2 – Sandy Alomar, Jim Spencer, Clyde Wright
**** 1 – Bob Oliver, John Stephenson, Chris Coletta, Billy Parker, Nolan Ryan
6 – his own home run
1 – wild pitch
1 – error

Paul E

9 days ago

Reply to no statistician but

I recall Cardenas being a solid SS and beter hitter than his peers at the position in that “2nd Deadball Era”. There were some guys back then who just couldn’t drive the ball or even work a walk

Doug

16 days ago

18 runs by the Guardians in their two games in Chicago is a Division Series record for road teams in elimination games. It has been exceeded by the Rangers in the 2023 ALCS (20 runs) and by the Yankees in the 1960 World Series (21 runs).

Bob Eno

15 days ago

Reply to Doug

That Yankees total stands out because although the team outscored the Pirates 21-10 in the final two games of the ’60 Series (at Forbes Field), unlike the ’23 Rangers they did not win the series where these games occurred. In the seven-game 1960 WS the Yankees outscored the Pirates 55-27 so those last two games were on brand, but it’s more remarkable to realize that over the first five games the Yankees outscored the Pirates 34-17 and went 2-3. (Given my loyalties I like to dwell on the ’60 Series, but mindful that nsb may feel it is an unnecessary… Read more »

no statistician but

15 days ago

Reply to Bob Eno

Somehow your memory of that Series deems the two complete game shutouts pitched by Ford as unworthy of note. In those two games he allowed 10 singles, a double, and two BBs. The only inning in which the Pirates had two baserunners resulted from an error in the ninth inning of Game Two, by guess whom—Kubek. Whitey promptly struck out the next batter to end it.

Just to show a little balance here.

Bob Eno

15 days ago

Reply to no statistician but

I noted no individual feat by any player. The string begun by Doug was strictly about team runs.

Last edited 15 days ago by Bob Eno

Bob Eno

15 days ago

Tomorrow the Guardians and White Sox face off for the ALDS winner. I’m rooting for the White Sox — I love oddities like a team leaping from historically bad to 100+-losses to the World Series (if the Sox can possibly get past the Rays). But although that’s how I feel, my reason tells me that Cleveland is the team to root for. Last year, Cleveland mounted a tremendous late-season finish, going .750 after August 25 to catch the Tigers. I’ve always rooted for Detroit as my AL team so I was hoping they’d beat the Guardians in the Wild Card… Read more »

Dr. Doom

15 days ago

Reply to Bob Eno

Amazing shout-out to CC, if he still hangs around here!

I, personally, will feel good either way. Cleveland is scrappy. Chicago is playing completely above their heads… but they are FUN! I went to a White Sox game this year (Memorial Day), Murakami hit one out, and I had a blast. I’ve been hoping for them to do well. But I’ll be rooting for whichever AL Central teams is still in, unless they’re playing the Brewers.

Bob Eno

14 days ago

Reply to Dr. Doom

Well, it’s Cleveland, even though several White Sox batters failed to strike out.

You know, Doom, now that the spotlight will shift to the Dodgers and Brewers I have a somewhat similar problem. It’s not conceivable that I wouldn’t root for Brooklyn (even if they do play their home games away these days), but I’m not at all comfortable with the Bums becoming like a National League version of the old Yankees. With a generational talent like Misiorowski pitching, if the Brewers win I won’t be sad. (I rooted for them in ’82!)

Dr. Doom

13 days ago

Reply to Bob Eno

Total pennants by the Brewers, Guardians, and Rays, 1949-2025: 6.
Total World Series wins by the Brewers, Guardians, and Rays, 1949-2025: 0.

Total pennants by the Dodgers, 1949-2025: 20.
Total pennants by the Brewers, Guardians, and Rays, 1949-2025: 9.

Yes, the Brewers and Rays are “newer,” but we’re still talking about more than twice as many seasons in the former camp than the latter, and significantly less success. (Obviously, the first number certainly WILL change this year, because one of the AL teams will, by definition, win the pennant. We’ll see by how much, and which other numbers change!)

Bob Eno

13 days ago

Reply to Dr. Doom

Doom, I’m surprised you didn’t contrast the three-team pennant total with Dodger WS wins (both are 9). But the perspectives of kid fans have unusual power. When I first became a conscious fan the Dodger WS record was a pretty remarkable 0-7. They were called the Bums for a reason, and my first program or schedule featured a cartoon of the team’s iconic bum (a character embodied by the clown Emmett Kelly) wandering along a path of pennant flags (1916, 1920 . . . 1953) with the slogan, “Wait Till Next Year!” It’s hard to shake the feeling that the… Read more »

Dr. Doom

12 days ago

Reply to Bob Eno

Having been born in Milwaukee in 1986, I was raised in a different era, location, and with a quite different ethos than you were. My dad HATED the Dodgers. Still does, actually – much more than I do. My dad, the one who taught me baseball, never forgave the Dodgers for taking the pennant from his beloved Braves in ’59. (Dad was 8-turning-9 that October.) Then, as my dad was in his 20s and early 30s, the Dodgers were again winners. In the first 31 years of his life, the Dodgers won 12 pennants. That’s a lot! I started following… Read more »

Bob Eno

12 days ago

Reply to Dr. Doom

Easy to understand Doom Sr.’s feelings. ’59 was a playoff fight — such a high stakes finale! Of course, the ’59 Braves were like the Dodgers this year, looking for a third-straight pennant, but you Dad may not have been fully aware the two seasons before. There was no NL team I hated, apart from the Giants — the animus I felt for them was so strong that in 1962 when I had my only chance to attend a Series game at the Stadium I rooted for the Yankees. I loved the Braves of ’57 and ’58 — Spahn, Burdette,… Read more »

Dr. Doom

12 days ago

Reply to Bob Eno

I believe he was only vaguely aware of the ’57 team (which won, obviously), but definitely paid some attention to the team in ’58 that came up just shy. Don’t feel TOO bad for him, though; Wisconsinites has it pretty good with the Packers in the 60s and even Marquette and Bucks titles in the 70s. Things have been spottier since then, though we’ve had another NBA title and two Super Bowls. Still tonight has me feeling good – good enough that I’m writing this before Game 2 is over (but AFTER the Crew opened up a 3-run lead).

Scary Tuna

11 days ago

Reply to Dr. Doom

I’m pulling for your Brewers, and they certainly are playing well.

While I waited at a light this evening, the plate on the car ahead of me caught my attention: DR DOOM.

Dr. Doom

10 days ago

Reply to Scary Tuna

Wasn’t me, sorry to say! I’m in MN, and don’t have personalized plates. I suspect my “name” is going to be a lot more common to see the closer we get to December 18th.

Author

Doug

12 days ago

Reply to Dr. Doom

If we end up with a Brewers vs Rays World Series, it will be the first series matchup between two teams that have never won a World Series since the Phillies and Royals met in 1980. Since 1908 (the first World Series that did NOT match two non-winners), it’s happened only two other times, in 1909 (Pirates vs Tigers) and 1920 (Indians vs Robins).

Doug

12 days ago

Game 1 of the ALCS was the 5th post-season game (for which pitch count data are available) in which a team has hit two “first pitch of the inning” home runs, but the first time said team was trailing in the game before each of those blasts. Those teams are 5-0 in those games. These are the other such games, with the highlighted contest the only one with the second such home run a walk-off shot.
2001 ALDS Game 3
2003 ALCS Game 7
2004 NLDS Game 1
2015 ALWC Game 1

Last edited 12 days ago by Doug

Bob Eno

9 days ago

Congratulations to Doom on his Brewers sweeping the Dodgers and avenging last year’s NLCS. It was eminently clear that the best team won!

no statistician but

4 days ago

From 1962 to 2014, no World Series featured two expansion era teams.

Since then 4 of 12 Series have pitted expansion era teams against each other.

2015 Royals Mets
2019 Nats-Astros
2023 Rangers-Diamondbacks
2026 Brewers-Rays

Dr. Doom

4 days ago

Reply to no statistician but

You’d expect it to be about a quarter of the time, right? About half the league is expansion teams, so half the time it should be one expansion vs. one original, and a quarter of the time it should be two original franchises, and a quarter it should be two expansions. You probably had to wait a while until the expansion teams were more “established” for the regular numbers to work their way in… but this seems about right to me.

Bob Eno

3 days ago

Reply to Dr. Doom

This is the first time that two expansion teams have faced each other in the Series, each representing the best record in their respective leagues (once the full basis of the World Series match-up).

Dr. Doom

3 days ago

Reply to Bob Eno

I don’t know if you saw the article on MLB.com… but this is the first time in all four major sports that, in each individual series, the team with the better regular-season record has defeated the team with the inferior regular-season record in each round. As a Brewers fan… my fingers and toes are crossed that we get the first “chalk” playoffs in history!!!

Bob Eno

3 days ago

Reply to Dr. Doom

Depends what they mean by “history,” Doom. In the post-division era, the first such playoff was in 1970. (My guess is that they mean, for MLB, “wild-card era” history, since 1995.) I’m generally an NL fan and Milwaukee, as I mentioned earlier, has been an MLB city I rooted for as early as 1957, so it’s easy for me to join you in rooting for the Brewers — and I’m hoping we see peak Miz (I don’t want to cause anguish, but I’m hoping to see a seven-game Series so we can see a 3-0 Miz). But I have to… Read more »

Paul E

3 days ago

Reply to Bob Eno

Bob,

Re “Miz 3-0” , what’s the Las Vegas/Draft Kings, etc….over/under on total innings pitched if he makes three starts? 16 2/3?

Bob Eno

2 days ago

Reply to Paul E

I take your point, Paul. But this is the world we now live in. And Misiorowski did tie for the NL Lead in Complete Games* in this, his first full season! What more could we ask?

*He had one, tied with 11 others.**

**When we were young the twelve pitchers together couldn’t have won a CG title. . . . Add the 9 tied for the AL title with one CG and most years all 21 together couldn’t have won a ML CG title.

Paul E

2 days ago

Reply to Bob Eno

Bob,

Absolutely. It’s really been a strange evolution since the early 70’s when guys like Jenkins , Perry, and Gibson would complete 25 games in a season. Crazy…

no statistician but

2 days ago

Reply to Paul E

The enthusiasm over Misiorowski , while not undeserved, is a little out of touch with his actual performance, or more correctly, with how manager Murphy has used him, especially recently. In five starts in the post season he has pitched 23.2 innings, and in his five starts in September also 23.2. In five of the ten starts he failed to qualify for the win, and in two of the other six he was pulled at five innings exactly. In only three of the starts did he throw over ninety pitches before leaving the game. Only twice did he start with… Read more »

Author

Doug

1 day ago

Reply to no statistician but

Congrats to Mis on his game 1 win, in his first post-season start of 5 or more IP.

Doug

1 day ago

Reply to no statistician but

So this is the first World Series between two teams from the second or later expansion “waves”. Also the first all-indoor World Series, assuming the roof stays closed in Milwaukee. The two teams slugged .402 and .403 for the season. This is the 106th World Series of the live ball era, 53 before the 1973 inception of the DH rule, and 53 since then. Both league champions slugging that low has happened only 15 other times in those 106 seasons, 9 times in the first 53 seasons, and 6 times since then, the latter seasons being 1973, 1981, 1988, 1989,… Read more »

Last edited 1 day ago by Doug

Dr. Doom

1 day ago

Pitcher usage, or: why no one pitches complete games anymore. The majority theory for why no one pitches CGs anymore is simple: the data nerds have gotten a hold of front offices, and they tie the hands of managers and players, and they force an endless parade of relievers on us. This is, of course, somewhat true. But I want to remind us all of Stephen Jay Gould on the death of the .400 hitter. Gould’s basic idea was not that the best hitters of today are any worse than the best hitters of another era. His idea was that… Read more »

Paul E

1 day ago

Reply to Dr. Doom

Doom,

Thanks for the numbers. Considering the general mediocrity of 4th and 5th starters today, I wonder how many hard throwing relievers might better serve as starters. Sort of like how Ranger Suarez was eventually “stretched out” by the Phillies. Perhaps organizations just don’t want to risk arms or have faith in their ability to mix pitches? I dunno.

Regardless of the superiority of the Milwaukee bullpen, I’d sure like to see Miz, with all that arm strength, go 7 or 8 IP routinely. Maybe next year…. ?

Bob Eno

11 hours ago

Reply to Dr. Doom

This is a good argument, Doom. I’d modify it slightly. In addition to MLB-grade pitchers having gotten more skilled over time, the specialization of the expanded relief corps has given RPs an extra advantage because their lighter workload magnifies the effective impact of their skills. This is somewhat different from the .400-hitter problem, because the pinch-hitter or sub’s effectiveness isn’t enhanced by the short duration of his role (as is the case of the RP), nor has the starting pitcher’s role changed because of the advent of more skilled batters (although batters have become more skilled). (Another asymmetry is that… Read more »

Last edited 11 hours ago by Bob Eno

Dr. Doom

12 hours ago

I believe that this Series might literally kill me.

Bob Eno

11 hours ago

Reply to Dr. Doom

Doomed either way . . .? OK, I’ll root for a sweep instead of the Brewers in 7.