Circle of Greats: 1932 Balloting

134 Replies

This post is for voting and discussion in the 47th round of balloting for the Circle of Greats (COG).  This round is for voting on the group of players born in 1932.  Rules and lists are after the jump.

This round’s new group joins the holdovers from previous rounds to comprise the full set of players eligible to receive your votes in this round of balloting.

As usual, this new group of 1932-born players, in order to join the eligible list, must have played at least 10 seasons in the major leagues or generated at least 20 Wins Above Replacement (“WAR”, as calculated by baseball-reference.com, and for this purpose meaning 20 total WAR for everyday players and 20 pitching WAR for pitchers).

Each submitted ballot, if it is to be counted, must include three and only three eligible players.  The one player who appears on the most ballots cast in the round is inducted into the Circle of Greats.  Players who fail to win induction but appear on half or more of the ballots that are cast win four added future rounds of ballot eligibility (unless they appear on 75% or more of the ballots, in which case they win six added eligibility rounds).  Players who appear on 25% or more of the ballots cast, but less than 50%, earn two added future rounds of ballot eligibility.  Any other player in the top 9 (including ties) in ballot appearances, or who appears on at least 10% of the ballots, wins one additional round of ballot eligibility.

All voting for this round closes at 11:00 PM PST Thursday, February 20th, while changes to previously cast ballots are allowed until 11:00 PM PST, Tuesday, February 18th.

If you’d like to follow the vote tally, and/or check to make sure I’ve recorded your vote correctly, you can see my ballot-counting spreadsheet for this round here: COG 1932 Vote Tally.  I’ll be updating the spreadsheet periodically with the latest votes.  Initially, there is a row in the spreadsheet for every voter who has cast a ballot in any of the past rounds, but new voters are entirely welcome — new voters will be added to the spreadsheet as their ballots are submitted.  Also initially, there is a column for each of the holdover players; additional player columns from the new born-in-1932 group will be added to the spreadsheet as votes are cast for them.

Choose your three players from the lists below of eligible players.  The 12 current holdovers are listed in order of the number of future rounds (including this one) through which they are assured eligibility.  The new group of 1932 birth-year players are listed below in order of the number of seasons each played in the majors.  In total there are 15 players born in 1932 who meet the “10 seasons played or 20 WAR” minimum requirement.

Holdovers:
Lou Whitaker (eligibility guaranteed for 8 rounds)
Al Kaline (eligibility guaranteed for 6 rounds)
John Smoltz (eligibility guaranteed for 4 rounds)
Sandy Koufax (eligibility guaranteed for 3 rounds)
Craig Biggio (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Bobby Grich (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Kenny Lofton (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Juan Marichal (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Edgar Martinez (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Willie McCovey (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Ryne Sandberg (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)
Ron Santo (eligibility guaranteed for this round only)

Everyday Players (born in 1932, ten or more seasons played in the major leagues or at least 20 WAR):
Maury Wills
Woodie Held
Eddie Bressoud
Don Blasingame
Wes Covington
Jim King
Dick Stuart
Eddie Kasko
Harry Chiti

Pitchers (born in 1932, ten or more seasons played in the major leagues or at least 20 WAR):
Ron Kline
Johnny Podres
Billy Hoeft
Mike Fornieles
Hal Woodeshick
Bud Daley

Quick quiz: Excluding pitchers, who is the only player besides Maury Wills to win the MVP award in a season with OPS+ below 100?

134 thoughts on “Circle of Greats: 1932 Balloting”

    1. Doug Post author

      You’re right. But, I missed Roger.

      So, there are two others besides Wills with a sub-100 OPS+ MVP season. Who is the other one?

      Reply ↓
    2. Lawrence Azrin

      I’m curious why it was Peckinpaugh in particular that won the award off the Senators that year? I know that under then-current MVP rules:

      1) Walter Johnson wasn’t eligible, because he won the year before
      2) only one player per team could be selected

      But, but, BUT… Coveleski, Sam Rice, and in particular Goose Goslin seem far more qualifued than Roger P. Was P. regarded as an oustanding and influential leader, and a great defensive SS (which was probably true)?

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      2. Richard Chester

        LA: If you read Peck’s bio you will see what you surmised about him was true. He was an outstanding fielder and was described as the calmest man in the game and he had leadership qualities. He may have been friendly with the writers who in turn took advantage of the opportunity to give him the MVP award. After all they saw him as a veteran shortstop who played a key role in helping the Senators win the pennant, even if he only did play in 126 games.

        Reply ↓
  2. Lawrence Azrin

    MVP = OPS+<100?:

    Marty Marion, 1944 – OPS+ of 90 – maybe they wanted to spread it around, instead of giving it to Musial again?

    Reply ↓
    2. Hartvig

      I actually got Marion on my second guess. I figured it had to be someone up the middle defensively and I knew that Scooter & Ziolo had big offensive seasons in the years that they won it (big for them anyways)- what got me was Ozzie Smith- I didn’t think that he had won any MVP’s but I wasn’t absolutely certain so I checked him out first.

      Reply ↓
      1. bstar

        I guessed Zoilo and Pee Wee, though I didn’t remember Reese winning one (he didn’t). Turns out most of Pee Wee’s seasons were with an OPS+ barely over 100, not under.

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    3. Mike L

      My dad (who was a NY Giant fan) always said Marty Marion was the best shortstop (fielding). 1944 was a weird year. Middle of WWII, the Cards ran away with it and won the World Series. That’s a very odd roster for that period. 8 regulars, none over 29, and the pitchers weren’t old either. Several of their (young) regulars had short careers after the war was over. Maybe some political sensitivity. Ted Williams, Joe DiMaggio, Bob Feller, Hank Greenberg, Joe Gordon, Johnny Mize, etc. were already serving by 1943. Just speculating.

      Reply ↓
        1. Steven

          And that field he played on (Sportsman’s Park)-even in an era of unmanicured turf-was regarded as the worst infield in the majors.

          Reply ↓
        2. Lawrence Azrin

          Marion did fairly well in HOF voting- peaked at 40%, on the ballot until he wasn’t eligible anymore (though it’s hard to figure out sometimes, because of every-other-year voting).

          Very few players who have got 40% or over in the BBWAA voting are not eventually in the HOF – Hodges, Wills, Garvey, Oliva, and Marion are the only ones that come to mind that are not in the HOF now.

          Reply ↓
          2. Lawrence Azrin

            @98/DH;

            Very perceptive, I forgot that Morris is off the ballot now. Lee Smith has been over 40%; he has three years left on the HOF ballot.

            The “how in the world did he get THAT MUCH HOF support?” award probably goes to Hank Gowdy, who was a decent but far-from-great catcher pre-WWII (Jaws HOF rating of 94th/ career WAR of 18.2). He peaked at 35% in 1955, and got votes every year except one from 1937-1960.

          3. David Horwich

            Roger Maris also cracked the 40% mark. So the complete list of players who 1) received at least 40% of the BBWAA vote, 2) aren’t in the HoF, and 3) are no longer on the BBWAA ballot is:

            Garvey, Hodges, Marion, Maris, Morris, Oliva, Wills

            Also to note, there are 5 players still on the ballot who’ve received at least 40% of the vote:

            Bagwell, Biggio, Piazza, Raines, Smith

  7. Chris C

    Kaline – vote for the most deserving
    Biggio – because I always vote for Biggio
    Edgar – because he shouldn’t have to go through redemption again

    Reply ↓
  9. John Z

    Kaline for the win……..again!!!
    McCovey ROY, MVP, First Ballot HOF, ALl Star……and boarder line COG????
    and
    Marichal 6 Twenty win seasons, and a Marion..ish post season WHIP….

    Reply ↓
  12. Doug Post author

    Random musings on the 1932 crop.

    First, the batters.
    – Maury Wills’ 88.9% stolen base success rate in 1962 is the highest among players to lead their league in times caught stealing.
    – Harry Chiti is one of four players to catch a game in 3 different seasons, before reaching the age of 20. Who are the other three?
    – Eddie Kasko is one of only 6 players with 30+ career stolen bases and an equal number of times caught stealing. Kasko also had equal stolen base and caught stealing totals in 3 different seasons.
    – Dick Stuart is the one of only 5 players to lead his league in RBI, Total Bases and GIDP, all in the same season (1963). Jim Rice is the only HOFer to this. Who are the other three? Stu, Dr. Strangeglove, Stonefingers and the Boston Strangler may also lead in most nicknames but, with a perfect 11 for 11 in negative dWAR seasons, he earned them.
    – Jim King and Woodie Held are the only players to play their entire careers before 1970 and have 5 seasons (min. 300 PA) of 100+ OPS+ with a batting average under .250. Eleven players who have played since 1970 have done the same, led by Darrell Evans with 8 such seasons.
    – Wes Covington is one of a very small group of players to play for four different teams in the same season (1961). That was particularly anomalous in that Covington had played for 5 seasons with the first of those four teams, and would play for 5 seasons more with the last of them.
    – Don Blasingame is one of only ten second basemen with a season (1957) since 1901 of 3.5 oWAR and 2.5 dWAR.
    – Eddie Bressoud and Willie Mays are the only players … to play for the New York Giants and the New York Mets.

    And, the pitchers.
    – The well-traveled Ron Kline retired in 1970 having played for 9 franchises, then tied for the most ever. Kline was traded 4 times, purchased thrice, released twice, selected off waivers once, and signed as an amateur free agent and as a professional free agent.
    – Johnny Podres is the only pitcher to allow a home run on his birthday … in both the regular season and the World Series. More importantly, Podres (1955) and Sandy Koufax (1965) are the only Dodgers to start and win a World Series game 7 (both 2-0 shutouts).
    – Billy Hoeft is the last pitcher to lead his league in SO/BB ratio with a mark under 2. That season (1954) was the 7th time in 8 years that the AL-leading pitcher had posted such a score. In contrast, the NL hasn’t had such a pitcher since Paul Derringer in 1943.
    – Mike Fornieles was the first AL pitcher with 70 appearances in a season (1960). Fornieles is one of only four pitchers with 70+ appearances and 10+ wins in a season in which he led his league in games, games finished and saves. Who are the other three?
    – Hal Woodeschick’s 2-9 record in 1964 is the lowest W-L% (.182) of any pitcher leading his league in saves (min. 20 saves and 10 decisions).
    – In their 13 years of existence (1955-67) the Kansas City Athletics had only three pitcher seasons of 200+ IP and a .500 W-L%, two of them turned in by Bud Daley (who was then promptly shuttled to the Yankees).

    Reply ↓
    1. Lawrence Azrin

      @16/Doug,

      JIm Rice in 1983 also led in RBI (126), TB (344) and GIDP (31). Maybe it didn’t show up in the the B-R P-I because he tied Cooper in RBI, and Armas in GIDP.

      Reply ↓
      1. Doug Post author

        No, just a faulty search on my part. Thanks for spotting the error.

        Actually found three others as well. I’ll update the comment.

        Reply ↓
        1. Doug Post author

          Maybe it doesn’t count as being traded for yourself, but a couple of odd ones:
          – The Braves traded Dick Allen to the Phillies in exchange for Jim Essian. A week later, the Braves traded Jim Essian to the White Sox to complete an earlier trade for Dick Allen.
          – The Cubs claimed Hoyt Wilhelm off waivers from the Braves late in the 1970 season. After the season, the Braves paid a “ransom” of Hal Breeden to get Wilhelm back.
          – The Mariners did the reverse of the Wilhelm deal, trading Pat Borders to the Twins late in the 2004 season, then purchasing Borders’ contract early the following season.

          Reply ↓
    3. bells

      re: Podres giving up HRs on his birthday in both regular season and WS… I wonder how many players have even played games on the same day in the regular season and the world series… with the multiple rounds, I’d imagine it hasn’t happened much since 1969, strike-delayed years aside. Anyone know how common it was before that? How much of delay was there between the regular season and WS, usually?

      Reply ↓
      2. Doug Post author

        Maury Wills is the only player to get a hit on his birthday in the regular season and in the World Series.

        Willie Aikens two homer game in the 1980 series is the only time a player has homered on his birthday in the WS.

        Reply ↓
      3. David Horwich

        bells @ 72 –

        From 1946-68, there were usually 2 days off between the end of the season and the start of the World Series; the season ended on the last Sunday in September, occasionally the first Sunday of October, and the series start on the following Wednesday.

        Exceptions were 1948 (only 1 day off following the AL playoff), 1951 (no days off for the Giants after beating the Dodgers, but then they didn’t have to travel very far), and 1962 (no days off for the Giants, who opened the WS home the day after beating the Dodgers in LA).

        Reply ↓
        1. bells

          Great, thanks! That’s all interesting info. Surprising if only one player at all has homered on his birthday in the WS.

          Reply ↓
    4. Doug Post author

      Just for the record, the answers to the other questions I posed.

      – Other players (besides Dick Stuart and Jim Rice) to lead their league in the same season in TB, RBI and GIDP: George Scott (1975), Dave Parker (1985), Miguel Cabrera (2012)

      – Other pitchers (besides Mike Fornieles) to lead their league in G, GF and Saves, with 70 appearances and 10 wins: all three did so on pennant-winning (but WS-losing) teams – Jim Konstanty (1950), Mike Marshall (1973, 1974, 1979), Dan Quisenberry (1980)

      Reply ↓
  13. Richard Chester

    I haven’t looked but is Jimmie one of the other 4 players to catch a game in 3 seasons prior to his 20th birthday.

    Reply ↓
          1. Doug Post author

            Koback and Ed Clough are the only players to appear in 3 seasons as teenagers and none afterwards.

  16. KalineCountry Ron

    The Great and historically under-rated pre-eminent Rightfielder in American League history Al Kaline.

    The Great Sandy Koufax…. as Lou Johnson said, “You’re the greatest Sandy, you’re the greatest”.

    Lou Whitaker.

    Reply ↓
  18. Hartvig

    Kaline, Santo, Sandberg

    Stuart’s B-R page is really worth checking out if only to look at his defensive metrics. And yes- at least according to everyone who saw him play- he really was that awful.

    I think Will’s extraordinarily high SB% success rate had more to do with pitchers & catchers of his era than with his being better than say Raines or Morgan or others that came later.

    Reply ↓
    2. David Horwich

      That’s either strategic anti-strategic voting, or anti-strategic strategic voting, but I can’t decide which. Although as Chris C points out it probably won’t matter this round.

      Reply ↓
  29. Insert Name Here

    I’ve been away for a bit… but I’m back! Looks like I only missed two rounds… glad to see Gibson and Clemente got in! Two personal favorites of all time!

    Anyway, without further ado…

    Initial vote:

    1. Al Kaline (6.8 WAR/162 during 13-yr peak of 1955-67)
    2. Ron Santo (7.0 WAR/162 during 10-yr peak of 1963-72)
    3. Kenny Lofton (6.7 WAR/162 during 8-yr peak of 1992-99)

    Ranking of some others:

    4. Sandy Koufax (7.8 WAR/162 during 6-yr peak of 1961-66)
    5. Juan Marichal (7.1 WAR/162 during 7-yr peak of 1963-69)
    6. Bobby Grich (6.6 WAR/162 during 12-yr peak of 1972-83)
    7. Dick Allen (6.6 WAR/162 during 9-yr peak of 1964-72)
    8. Ryne Sandberg (6.2 WAR/162 during 9-yr peak of 1984-92)
    9. Craig Biggio (5.8 WAR/162 during 9-yr peak of 1991-99)
    10. Willie McCovey (6.7 WAR/162 during 8-yr peak of 1963-70)
    11. Lou Whitaker (5.5 WAR/162 during 15-yr peak of 1979-93)
    12. Edgar Martínez (6.4 WAR/162 during 7-yr peak of 1995-2001)
    13. John Smoltz (5.8 WAR/162 during 5-yr peak of 1995-99)
    14. Johnny Podres (5.1 WAR/162 during 5-yr peak of 1957-61)

    Reply ↓
  30. Stubby

    Kaline, Lofton, Wills

    Kaline’s the best on the ballot. He’s going in, as he should. I’d vote for Whitaker, but he’s got 8 rounds saved up. Lofton’s only got the one. Wills, I think, was an important player in the history of the game. He was Rickey Henderson before there was a Rickey Henderson. And here he sits without a single vote so far. And that just ain’t right, in my book. Maury Wills would win you ballgames. Ultimately, that’s the name of the game.

    Reply ↓
    1. Nick Pain

      Wills may have had the speed of Henderson, but Wills’ highest qualifying season OBP (.355) is lower than Henderson’s lowest qualifying season (.358).

      Reply ↓
  47. bells

    Vote based on cumulative ranking on 3 measures: WAR, WAA+ and JAWS. Number beside the name represents the total ranking; if a player has a ‘3’, it means he’s #1 for all 3 measures of those on the ballot, if he has a 36 it means he’s #12. Numbers in parentheses are rankings of the respective measures…

    Kaline 3 (1 1 1)
    Grich 8 (3 2 3)
    Santo 9 (4 3 2)
    Whitaker 12 (2 4 6)
    Martinez 18 (6 5 7)
    Smoltz 21 (5 6 10)
    Lofton 22 (7 7 8)
    Sandberg 22 (8 9 5)
    Marichal 26 (11 11 4)
    McCovey 27 (10 8 9)
    Biggio 30 (9 10 11)
    Koufax 36 (12 12 12)

    Kaline, Santo, Grich.

    Reply ↓
  57. oneblankspace

    Marichal vs Podres head-to-head:

    2.Aug.1961 : SF 6, LA 0; Marichal CG-ShO, 1H, 11 K; Podres 6 IP, 4R, 3ER
    27.Jul.1962 : LA 3, SF 1; Podres CG-W, 1R, 0ER, 5 H, 6 K; Marichal 6 IP, 3ER, 6H
    5.Sept.1962 : SF 3, LA 0; Marichal W, 6IP, 4H, 3K; Podres L, 8IP, 9H, 3ER, 7K
    03.Oct.1962 (Game 165, game 3 of the tiebreaker series) : Marichal ND, 7IP, 8H 4R, 3ER, 2K; Podres ND, 5 IP+3 batters, 9H, 2R, 1ER, 0K; SF 6-4 with 4 in the ninth off Ed Roebuck
    7.Sept.1963 : Podres relieves Drysdale in a game Marichal wins 5-3

    Marichal 3-1, Podres 1-2

    Reply ↓
    1. John Autin

      Cool Wagner link, Mike L. That reminds me … I’m re-reading “The Unforgettable Season,” an account of the 1908 NL pennant race told via newspapers of the day. Before the season, there were countless stories that Wagner had retired to pursue business interests, some quoting Wagner himself; other accounts said he was too afflicted with rheumatism to keep playing. Either way, it was assumed by many that Wagner was at least out for the year. Then he went out and led the league in almost everything, posting the highest season WAR of all time by a shortstop.

      Reply ↓
      1. Mike L

        John A, I didn’t know that about Wagner. The Ike letter to Wagner was posted by Michael Beschloss, the Presidential historian, who has been posting vintage photos and documents. He has several baseball oriented ones, including a picture of Babe Ruth being carted off the field after being injured at Fenway. If anyone is interested, you can find him on Twitter at @BeschlossDC

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        1. Richard Chester

          I did some research on that photo of Ruth. There is some confusion concerning the details. Both B-R and the Charlton Chronology state that on 4-22-31 Ruth was injured crashing into Red Sox catcher Charlie Berry trying to score on a fly ball, but the photo shows him being carried off the field, on the 3rd base side, with his glove on. The box score indicates that he was playing LF. He probably remained in the game after the collision and fell ill or dizzy when he went back to LF.

          Ruth also knocked himself out at Griffith Stadium on 7-5-24 and was unconscious for several minutes. He remained in the game and also played the 2nd game of the DH.

          You can retrieve photos of both events via Google Images.

          Reply ↓
          1. Mike L

            Just found a reference to the play on google from a book called “The Big Bam”. Ruth tried to score from 3rd on a fly by Lazzari. The throw beat him to the plate, but he knocked the ball loose from Berry’s hand. He also “dislodged some blood vessels in his left thigh” which caused him to collapse when chasing a fly ball the next inning. He then spent the next five days in the hospital recovering.

  63. Hartvig

    With 55 votes cast thru #99 and any voting changing ending tonight (and assuming I didn’t miss anything):
    Kaline 41
    Koufax 24
    Marichal 18
    Santo 16
    Grich 11
    McCovey 10
    Biggio 10
    Lofton 8
    Whitaker 7
    Smoltz 7
    Martinez 6
    Sandberg 6
    Wills 1

    Santo has a good shot at staying over 25%- one vote in the next 13 ballots would keep him there. Grinch would need 6 & McCovey & Biggio would need to be on almost half of the ballots.

    Whitaker & Smoltz are tied for the last spot of the top 9 and stay over 10% for 15 more ballots

    Martinez & Sandberg are both over 10% but almost certainly will need at least 1 more vote to stay there (which would also put them in a tie for the 9 spot, at least as of the current moment)

    Reply ↓
    1. David Horwich

      I have the same count, so we’re either both right, or identically wrong.

      Looking at things from a slightly different angle, Grich would need to appear on all of the next 4 ballots to reach the 25% mark, Biggio and McCovey on all of the next 5. Koufax would need to appear on 7 straight ballots to reach 50%. Unlikely scenarios, all, IMO.

      I suppose Koufax is the early favorite for 1931 Pt 1? There will be some decent candidates making their first appearance, e.g. Ernie Banks, Ken Boyer, and Jim Bunning, but of those 3 I think only Banks is likely to draw significant support.

      Reply ↓
    2. Doug Post author

      INH just changed his vote to Sandberg, so he should be safe barring a final flurry of 16 more votes, all absent Ryno.

      Edgar is perhaps more tenuous. Six more ballots without his name, and he would be gone.

      Reply ↓
  64. Insert Name Here

    Following Hartvig’s logic… I could provide Martínez and Sandberg their “1 more vote to stay” above 10%. I could also keep Santo on my ballot to help keep him above 25%. I could change my vote to exactly those three because Kaline and Lofton’s fates are essentially determined. But I feel like we could use a cut, so I’ll not toss a vote to Martínez. Sorry, Gar, but the COG voting is just too clogged.

    Final vote: Kaline, Santo, Sandberg

    Reply ↓
    1. David Horwich

      It’s interesting what different people perceive to be a clogged/crowded ballot. After all, the holdover list will always have a minimum of 9 names on it, which has been true almost from the start (looking back, I see that the “top 9” rule was actually “top 8” for the first 2 elections).

      So if Martinez makes the cut, there will be 11 players on the next holdover list – which is only 2 above the minimum. And if he doesn’t, we’ll have pared it down almost as far as it can be pared.

      Reply ↓
      1. donburgh

        I would think the absolute minimum for holdovers would be eight, since the top finisher is removed on induction to the CoG. Am I wrong?

        Reply ↓
        1. David Horwich

          Hmm, yes, I see your point. If we want to get into extremely far-fetched scenarios, I suppose the theoretical minimum number is actually 2.

          For that to happen, everyone would have to vote for the same 3 players, and only those 3. That would result in a 3-way tie, which would be resolved in a runoff election, after which there would be just 2 players left for the next ballot’s holdover list.

          (This assumes that all the players on the ballot who received 0 votes weren’t deemed to be in a massive tie for 4th-Xth place.)

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    2. Hartvig

      “Following Hartvig’s logic… I could provide Martínez and Sandberg their “1 more vote to stay” above 10%”

      Even though I think that both Sandberg & Martinez belong in the COG I did try to present it in a way that was as bias neutral as possible- as Jack Webb would say: “Just the facts, ma’am.”

      With Brendan Bingham’s vote (#107) both Sandberg & Martinez now have 7 votes while Smoltz & Whitaker have joined Lofton in a 3-way tie for the 8th & 9th spots with 8.

      At this point, unless there are more than 12 more votes cast & none of them include either Sandberg or Martinez then all of our current holdovers will be moving forward to the next round.

      And best of all my second favorite player will join my favorite player in the COG.

      Reply ↓
  67. Mike L

    Kaline, Koufax, Sandberg. Still trying to decide about Koufax, but none of the other holdovers is grabbing me.
    Still, is was a struggle between Koufax and Woodeshick. What an odd career Woodeshick had.

    Reply ↓
  68. Bryan O'Connor

    Most Wins Above Average, excluding negative seasons:

    Kaline 58.6
    Grich 43.6
    Santo 43.3
    Whitaker 42.7
    Martinez 41.3
    Smoltz 40.1
    Lofton 39.3
    McCovey 38.9
    Sandberg 38.8
    Biggio 36.3
    Marichal 32.7
    Koufax 32.3
    Wills 14.5

    Kaline. Martinez. Smoltz.

    Reply ↓
  71. mosc

    we’re past the vote change line. I guess I can’t do anything sneaky at this point to kick martinez off, he seems to have too few competitors on this ballot to do that.

    Koufax, Kaline, Santo

    I would vote for smoltz, biggio, and sandberg as well. I would not vote for Lofton, martinez, Grich, Whitaker, Marchal or McCovey.

    You guys have more spots apparently than I do. Are you going to leave off Satchel Paige? I sure won’t. You try striking out a guy when you’re 58 in baseball’s heyday. (Even if it was an opposing pitcher with an historically awful .284 ops in 700+ PA)

    Reply ↓
  74. Michael Sullivan

    mosc: I’m not sure whether Paige will end up eligible. He was a major league player, but not for 10+ seasons or 20+ WAR.

    What is the situation for negro league players? I’m assuming most will give some credit to the players who entered the league late, i.e Robinson is a shoe-in, and guys like Doby or Minoso might get some play. But will we even have a chance to vote on Paige, Gibson, Bell, Charleston, or a dozen other guys that I’d probably know off the top of my head if they had been white?

    I think that should be clarified soon.

    Reply ↓
    1. RJ

      I believe birtelcom’s position is that the CoG is for players that the BBWAA considered it their business to pore over. So that leaves 19th century players and Negro Leaguers outside the purview of the CoG, as they were mostly left to special committees. So Robinson and Minoso will be eligible, by virtue of meeting the 10 year/20 WAR criteria, but Charleston, Paige and others won’t.

      At least, that’s my recollection of his words.

      Reply ↓
      1. mosc

        I understand what you’re saying but Satchel Paige belongs. He showed what he could do at a major league level. He was playing baseball against plenty of major league hitters when he was younger too. I’ll be putting him on my 1906 ballot whither I’m allowed to or not.

        Reply ↓
        1. David Horwich

          While I of course agree that Paige was one of the greatest pitchers in the history of baseball, I don’t think we should start making exceptions to the established criteria for eligibility; if we were to put Paige on the ballot, then why not Gibson, Charleston, Lloyd, et al.?

          Reply ↓
    2. Doug Post author

      Good point, Michael.

      Something to birtelcom to consider when he gets back.

      Some Paige factoids:
      – trails only Clemens and Wilhelm in career WAR per IP, aged 41+ (min. 400 IP)
      – he and Ted Lyons are only pitchers aged 45+ with season completing half of 5+ starts
      – he and Jack Quinn are only aged 45+ pitchers with black ink (for something good)
      – remember this game: answer to trivia question of the two oldest pitchers to appear in a game at the same time. Top of 8th inning, Paige and Bobo Newsom are the pitchers in the game, combined age of 92 years, 308 days.
      – our presumptive COG inductee, Al Kaline, struck out against Paige and also against David Clyde, players born almost 49 years apart. That might be a record of some kind.

      Reply ↓
  76. opal611

    For the 1932 election, I’m voting for:
    -Ryne Sandberg
    -Edgar Martinez
    -Craig Biggio

    Other top candidates I considered highly (and/or will consider in future rounds):
    -Smoltz
    -Whitaker
    -Grich
    -Lofton
    -Santo
    -McCovey
    -Kaline

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