You may have seen our big project launch yesterday, and then seen it was promptly canceled about an hour into it. I came to realize that even though I think our proposed work didn’t break any laws I was likely in for some massive headaches nevertheless. This is pretty devastating for me, as I spent a couple hundred hours and a lot of money prepping that project. At this point, I am going to resume my retirement. I don’t know what this means for the future of High Heat Stats, but without a funding source the site cannot continue as I am currently paying out of pocket.
Just want to throw my two cents into the ring. I would hate to think that we could not put our heads together and keep this great site up and running. I enjoy visiting this site on a daily basis. I hardly comment but enjoy reading all the articles. I can totally relate to your frustration, I have opened a business before only to close 3 years later, but this is a little different. Instead of thinking to hard maybe the answer is K.I.S. or keep it simple. If one simple baseball game can attract 100’s of die hard fans and thousands of casual fans, we should be able to some how attract more die hard fans to this site and maybe even do a once or twice a year seminar in some MLB cities. The seminar would need to be well advertised and reach thousands of fans but with guess speakers like Bill James, and Billy Beane (did i spell that right?) then there could be lectures by yourself, Doug, Adam Darkowski, Neil etal explaining how numbers are crunched and what exactly is sabermetrics. I really hate to think this is it for HHS. This is only one mans idea, but I hope we can all put our heads together and keep HHS alive for many years to come.
I fully agree. This is a great idea, and we have other great writers and their concepts as well. I’m sure the legal headaches with these seminars would not be nearly what the cards project seems to have, and would drag in tons of fans, not only to the seminar but to the site as well.
I refuse to believe that this means the end of HHS; the site’s vision will live on in its writers as long as they are alive and working, and even if this site ends, I choose to believe that they will continue working in some medium, at some place.
Here is another idea. Apart from the HHS facebook page have the articles written here linked to facebook, like the one on yahoo articles or youtube videos. Under your HHS support tab here, there is mention of this under “Mention our blog” this might be an easy way to link with tons of contacts all over FB. Personally I do not even have a twitter account, and many of my contacts on FB are MLB fans as am I. I will share the link that I found under “Facebook for Websites”, hope this helps spread the word.
https://developers.facebook.com/docs/guides/web/
Andy – Sorry that the card idea didn’t work out.
Just a few thoughts off the top of my head:
1) We could move back to a free wordpress.com site. I realize we’d lose some functionality but that would be better than nothing.
2) Charge to access some or all articles. For example, Bill James online has a mixture of free and paid articles. Access to the paid stuff is pretty minimal ($3 a month). I think Baseball Prospectus also charges for access to some of their stuff. I don’t have a sense as to how much money you need to at least break even but I’m sure there’d be a fair amount of people who would be willing to pay a fee of $1-5 a month to access the site’s content.
Well, putting some of the content behind a paywall that costs $1 a month to access would probably cover the costs. I’d have to figure out how to do that, though. I also get concerned about subscriptions because it totally changes my mindset as far as content requirements, assurance of uptime, etc. Right now, if there’s a lull in the blog or my ISP goes on the fritz, it’s an inconvenience to all. If I am accepting money, then people have a legitimate reason to complain.
Understood Andy. Still, I’m sure we can come up with something! We fought off extinction before…I’m sure we can do it again!!!
James’s site was the first thing I thought of too. I happily pay $3 a month for that, and would happily pay $3 a month for this. I realize it’s tougher without James’s name recognition.
This is a bummer to be sure, but I’ve donated before and will likely donate again, especially if it means keeping the site alive.
Man, this is crappy news. Those cards looked amazing, and obviously took alot of work, and it was pretty exciting to see since I know you’re a cards guy and it seemed like an elegant solution to financing the place with a project that was fun. I too believe that this place has built itself into a strong enough presence that there should be some other financing solution.
Can I ask what kind of headaches you might have incurred with the card project? I don’t have twitter so maybe it was elaborated on there, but is there just not any way you could see that project being tweaked and still working out?
I’d prefer not to go into it since this is not a legal discussion blog, but the basic issue is that whenever you’re dealing with something about other people (i.e. ballplayers in this case) you run the risk of a claim being brought against you. The claim can be all sorts of different things. Regardless of the VALIDITY of such a claim, simply having to defend myself is more of a risk than I was willing to take on.
Andy, one of the silent majority here. Consider establishing an LLC for your card venture. It’s usually fairly inexpensive to set up (here in Michigan you can do it online for well under $100).
The great thing with an LLC is it removes personal liability from the product. If the LLC gets sued, it’s the LLC’s assets that get taken, not your personal ones.
It’s a layer of protection that could well save this worthwhile project.
Mark, I’ve already done this. I have a strong business background. Creating an LLC doesn’t actually address the core issue of exposure to financial loss. Let’s say I go ahead with the kickstarter campaign, get all the funding, get sued, and then walk away. Sure, I can just walk away from the company. But then all the backers fail to get what they paid for. Or if I don’t walk away and continue to make the product, then I need to pay to defend the company against the suit. Neither option is acceptable to me.
Could you do the project via more traditional baseball cards? Instead of having a written commentary on the back, simply include the players stats (along with some of the advanced stats). The sample artwork looked amazing and I’m sure a lot of people would want the cards just for that, regardless of what’s on the back. Or could the artwork itself get you sued? I’m not a lawyer so I don’t know the ins and outs of this. Just doing some brainstorming and throwing some ideas out there.
What about some type of annual fundraiser? Similar to Kickstarter, we could offer rewards from the High Heat Store and/or donator-requested blog posts in return for different levels of contributions. Not a super-creative idea I realize, but it seems you definitely have people here willing to pay a little to ensure the blog continues. Just need to find the best way to tap into that and reward those folks for their generosity.
One more idea: put a baseball hat on the site, and see if the Dodgers will throw ten million dollars your way.
I’ve bought my HHS coffee mug. I was primed for my cards (and still am, if that can ever happen). I would be so happy to pay a subscription to keep this community going. I can understand why, when you’re the one doing almost all the work, a setback such as the latest can be so discouraging. As others have said in so many words in the comments above, there are a lot of ways to do this. My hopes for reading highheatstats far into the future are, well, high.
Which leads to me this. Fellow lurkers: get off your wallets. All the guys whose comments you read all the time? They already bought a coffee mug. Given the loyalty of some of those guys, they may have been willing to sponsor a corporate jet. But for you, me and the rest just checking in several times a day? Buy your coffee mug now. Here’s the link: http://www.highheatstats.com/support/. This is some of the best data-driven baseball writing around. It’s ours if we want it.
Ed, I think the problem with the cards, if i understand it correctly, is the use of player images. Attempting to gain profit from drawings or pictures, could have brought a lawsuit from which the cost of defending the site may have outweighed the profit margins.
I don’t know for sure but that’s how I understand the problem from afar.
From what I’ve been able to glean, seems like original artwork would be protected:
“selling a t-shirt with a caricature of the president does not violate that individual’s publicity rights because caricature includes a significant degree of original expression, along with the public figure’s likeness, and this original expression is protected by the First Amendment.”
http://www.onlineartrights.org/issues/depictions-real-people/basics
It’s a complicated area though because there’s no federal law. So every state has different laws.
I suspect that the issue is not whether the artwork is or is not protected. I think Andy’s concern is that he would have to defend a legal action…even if that action lacked merit. That would destroy any opportunity to finance the site. That’s what I get from Andy’s replies 7 & 10 above.
Ed, you’re essentially correct. I, and the lawyers I spoke to, conclude that there are no laws being broken. Doing the art in the stylized way (as opposed to trying to faithfully reproduce a photograph) pretty much ensures that it’s protected. BUT, as Kenny points out in #18, that doesn’t stop people from complaining or even suing. Even if the law may go my way ultimately, how much money & stress will it cause to defend myself?
Andy:
It’s hard to articulate what I want to convey. 1) In spite of my oftentimes critical stance on some of the posts at this site, I find HHS to be the most generally stimulating, penetrating, articulate, and civil place I’ve ever discovered on line, regardless of subject matter. It’s the only site I have ever felt compelled to respond to by contributing (although some might question my use of that term with reference to my various screeds). 2) The idea that HHS is in danger of folding on economic grounds is or should be a call to arms or to wallets. The fact is, baseball cards don’t interest me at all, I have all the mugs I’ll ever need, I don’t care for memorabilia, “The Hall of Nearly Great” didn’t appeal to me. Thus I’m apparently left with no option unless you open the door for people like me simply to pay out of pocket to get what we want—namely, continued access to what goes on here. You don’t need a product to sell, in my opinion. You already have one.
My thoughts exactly nsb. I’d seriously be happy to pay a couple of measly bucks a month if I felt it would keep this stimulating, intelligent, fun and respectful corner of the internet going. I realize that not having something be free immediately changes the game for so many casual fans, but this place could do something like the play index on B-R – the site could offer a lot of stuff for free, but some exclusive things for ‘premium’ accounts. I don’t even think it has to be much, there just needs to be some kind of token way someone like me can support this place in a continual fashion. Even if I bought a mug, which I don’t want, what about in a year? I’m not going to buy another mug. But I sure as hell am going to enjoy reading and (very occasionally) contributing here, so I’d pay a few bucks a month for that entertainment and, frankly, enrichment to continue.
You’ve still got 8 teams to go in Mount Rushmore, Andy. I’m willing to do whatever I can to make sure those posts see the light of day sometime.
I agree with both of the previous comments and am more than willing to contribute to this site.
Dan’s idea of an annual fundraiser seems like a good, simple way to best help this situation.
I would like to echo the thoughts of posts 20, 21 and 22.
Richard, you have already done more than enough in terms of supporting us. Our readers here will not know what I am referring to, but obviously you do. You need not do anything more.
Thanks. I will keep it in mind as see what I can come up with.
Frequent reader/infrequent commenter.
This is an unfortunate circumstance, although quite understandable. I was looking for the right words then came across comment #20 and realized I couldn’t say it better than he did.
I go back to the days even before the old Baseball Reference blog, when Neil and I wrote for the long defunct ArmchairGM. While I’m not a “stathead” in the same sense this community is, I’m a long-time SABR member who sees a market out there somewhere.
So, I’ll help out any way I can.
I really hate to hear that news. I’ve been a frequent visitor to this site and have commented several dozen times or so. I can’t think of a single better place to read/comment about the love of Baseball more than HHS. I’m truly saddened and hope it works out for the better.
Another thought….how about holding a “pledge drive” on a regular basis? Say once every three or six months. I’ve seen other sites with free content use this method. You already have the donate button on the website. You could simply post how much money is needed to keep the site running for the next 3 or 6 months and challenge the readers to meet that goal. This would address the concerns re: a subscription site that you mentioned in #3.
I’ve been away and otherwise distracted the last 36 hours and just saw this. Very bad news. Andy, you indicated that you had concerns about a subscription/paywall. As an alternative, is it possible to do e-books, even all text, compiling one to two month’s posts with the better comments (obviously, mine excluded) for something like the cost of an itunes album ($10). Presumably, the content is all yours to use, and the headache of administering subscriptions doesn’t come in to play. I doubt anyone is going to care about good production values, and they might enjoy a good compilation 3-4 times per year
Andy, I see from your post 32 that you seem to have some ideas to have this site continue to exist, and that is a good step up from the bleakness of your initial post. For what it’s worth, I had a few ideas since the last time I posted. Mike L’s ‘highlights package’ is a cool idea that I didn’t have, but I’m gonna throw out a few ideas in case they were in line with what you already had, or if you ever need ideas in the future…
– an annual or semi-annual pledge drive has been mentioned, and this is an idea I had as well. Continual subscriptions have more dependability and spread the cost out a bit better, but either is a solid way forward.
– the more novel idea I had was to get readers to sponsor the site for a period of time; like, instead of getting a small amount of money every month from a large number of people and going through the hassle of inventing some kind of premium features, or going through the uncertainty of a pledge drive, you could do something like lay out the year to come and how much the site will cost. Let’s say it cost $90 a month (I have no idea if this is anywhere near what it really costs); I and others have already said they’d pay $2-3 a month to support the site, so why not get 3 of us to do it all at once? Then for January, for example, you could have a banner that says ‘HHS is sponsored in January by Bells, Mike L and John Autin’ or something like that. In that model, you’d need 36 people to sponsor the whole year, and then next December assuming the site hasn’t taken a nosedive in participation and quality or whatever, you could lay out 2014 and get people to sponsor those months.
Anyway, this may be a moot point if you’ve figured it out already, but I know what we already get is worth a few bucks a month to me, and many other people here, so something like that could probably work.
Andy:
I too will donate or pay a monthly fee. As others have
said, this site is your product. I can’t imagine anyone
complaining if the sight were down for a short period of
time. Anyone who thinks they might, should not subscribe.
I continue to enjoy The Hall of Nearly Great. One can
read it over and over.
The essay’s on Buddy Bell and Brian Downing are my favorites.
Thanks to all who have offered their suggestions on this thread. I have been discussing with folks internally over the last couple of days and I think I’ve settled on a path forward. As Jason says in #31, the actual content of this site is our value and should be worth something to at least a fraction of our readership.
In all likelihood, I will do nothing until closer to the beginning of the season–this time of year is a tough time to be asking for dollars.
Ah, you can ask for a few dollars before you implement a formal system! Folks like me will help out, & are grateful for the greatly discerning, incisive, cordial & creative commentary & debate!
However it is done, the quality of content & degree of interest easily makes continuing this web site a no-brainer. And this seems fairly low hanging fruit. Intellectually, socially, emotionally…It is quite valuable. And not so hard to just keep going, that is low hanging fruit!
If these web sites can be going strong, the 1st for almost a dozen years, we can go approximately until…(checks watch)
The End of Time.
Love the “Premortem” mix.
http://www.abevigoda.com
http://www.isabevigodadead.com
The End of Time…
Crazy Mayans.
Andy , Add my name to the list of those who find the site essential to living. I agree with nsb that the product is already there, and it consists of access to the ideas of others in a forum so civilized that individuals like me can put forth thoughts and ideas that are only half-formed without fear of ridicule. I am just coming back from nine days without access to the internet – I discovered I miss emails a little, Facebook not at all, and HHS quite a bit. if you want to sell me a virtual mug – I’d be happy to pay a few bucks every now and then for an email from you with a picture of a mug, no shipping costs, and that would be the extent of the contract between us , so no implied promise about HHS ..
just a thought.
As a professional sports statistician, I am constantly in awe of what you folks (writers and commenters) come up with. What I do (TV production) is tee ball compared to the brilliance always on display here.
If I have to pay $2 a month to read HHS, then that’s $2 I can easily live without. I haven’t collected cards in a very long time (don’t tell that to the dozen or so boxes and half-dozen binders in my closet), but if the project ever came to fruition, I would support that, too.
I’ve been away from the site for a couple of weeks, just found time for a quick look at what I’ve been missing, and found Andy’s news.
Like nsb@20, cards are not my thing (unless you’re returning the complete sets my mother gave away 45 years ago) and mugs already crash out of over-full cabinets in my home. But when I have time to return as a regular here, I very much want here to be here – it’s always a good place to be. So, Andy, if you’re counting potential subscribers, please add one more.