Quiz – Pitching Greats (solved) |

Nolan Ryan was recently inducted into the HHS Circle of Greats and is one of these pitching greats with a career accomplishment unique among pitchers active since 1901. What is this unusual career feat?

Rk	Player
1	Mordecai Brown
2	Sandy Koufax
3	Nolan Ryan
4	Eddie Plank
5	Eppa Rixey
6	Red Faber
7	Carl Hubbell
8	Jack Chesbro
9	Ted Lyons

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 11/13/2013.

Congratulations to Artie Z! He correctly identified our quiz players as the only Hall of Fame pitchers active since 1901 who hit no more than 5 career home runs but did hit one off another Hall of Fame pitcher. More on this vanishing occurrence after the jump.

Here are those home runs, only one of which has occurred in the past 51 seasons.

Batter	Date	Tm		Opp	Pitcher	Score	Inn	Out	RBI	BOP	Pos
Jack Chesbro	1901-09-02 (1)	PIT	@	BSN	Kid Nichols		t 4		2		1
Eddie Plank	1903-05-02	PHA	@	BOS	Cy Young		t 9		1		1
Jack Chesbro	1904-04-14	NYY		BOS	Cy Young		b 2		1	9	1
Mordecai Brown	1907-07-19	CHC	@	NYG	Joe McGinnity		t 9		3		1
Red Faber	1923-06-06	CHW	@	NYY	Herb Pennock	tied 1-1	t 7	2	1	9	1
Eppa Rixey	1924-06-28 (1)	CIN	@	STL	Jesse Haines		t 2		1		1
Ted Lyons	1930-09-26	CHW	@	DET	Waite Hoyt	ahead 1-0	t 5	0	1	9	1
Carl Hubbell	1932-08-26	NYG	@	STL	Dizzy Dean		t 3		1		1
Ted Lyons	1934-05-23	CHW		NYY	Red Ruffing		b 7		2		1
Sandy Koufax	1962-06-13	LAD	@	MLN	Warren Spahn	ahead 1-0	t 5	1	1	9	1
Nolan Ryan	1980-04-12	HOU		LAD	Don Sutton	behind 1-3	b 4	1	3	9	1

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 11/13/2013.

It doesn’t appear that any of the pitchers currently on the HOF ballot will be joining this group. Nor any of the group more recently retired. Among active pitchers, only a couple of real long shots with Zack Greinke homering off Cliff Lee, and Felix Hernandez off Johan Santana. Maybe if Clayton Kershaw can connect off Roy Halladay, we might have another.

Of course, the dearth of home runs by HOF pitchers is not a real surprise when you consider that the 33 home runs hit by pitchers in 2000 is the most in any season since 1973. Contrast that with the 1950 to 1972 period, when that 33 mark was exceeded in all but two seasons, with figures over 40 common and maximums over 70.

Warren Spahn

5243.2

2583

1942

1965

21-44

Jim Palmer

3948.0

2212

1965

1984

19-38

Vida Blue

3343.1

2175

1969

1986

19-36

Fernando Valenzuela

2930.0

2074

1980

1997

19-36

Sandy Koufax

2324.1

2396

1955

1966

19-30

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brp

10 years ago

Ted Lyons is apparently an extreme control pitcher with very low BB/9 and K/9 numbers. My guess was going to be something with longevity but Koufax knocks that thought away.

I’m not seeing a lot of commonality between individual stats so am guessing this is a ratio.

Author

Doug

Reply to brp

Not a ratio.

It is a counting stat, within which is a particular quirk.

mosc

Something to do with complete games in consecutive years? Maybe leading the league in complete games over a decade or something?

Reply to mosc

Not related to complete games.

The criteria is the entire career, not any portion of it.

Ryan and Plank were both the active career leader in complete games for their last seasons (1993, 1917). Lyons of course was the active leader for a hell of a long time, 1936-1946. He’s actually the career leader in seasons as the active CG leader at 11, HA! Nobody else on this list was an active career CG leader.

Mike L

Fascinating Koufax stat. 2396 IP, 18 Hit Batsmen.

Reply to Mike L

Among pitchers with 2000 strikeouts, that’s the second lowest rate per IP, behind only Vida Blue with 23 HBP in 3343 IP.

These are the only pitchers with 2000 strikeouts and less than one HBP per 100 IP.

Rk	Player	IP	SO	HBP	From	To	Age
1	Warren Spahn	5243.2	2583	42	1942	1965	21-44
2	Jim Palmer	3948.0	2212	38	1965	1984	19-38
3	Vida Blue	3343.1	2175	23	1969	1986	19-36
4	Fernando Valenzuela	2930.0	2074	25	1980	1997	19-36
5	Sandy Koufax	2324.1	2396	18	1955	1966	19-30

Voomo Zanzibar

Ted Lyons led the league in era at age 41.
He then joined the Marines.
Came back and pitched at age 45.

Is there an athlete today as remotely badass?

Richard Chester

Reply to Voomo Zanzibar

The last 28 games of his career were all CG.

Editor

John Autin

Doug — You’ve said that it’s a career counting stat, and that it is “unique among pitchers active since 1901.” By that wording, I take it that Chesbro’s 19th-century stats DO count, for these purposes. Is that so?

Reply to John Autin

That is true, John.

The criteria is the entire career of any pitcher active at an point in time since 1901.

Is it a pitching stat or batting? I think these guys all had to hit.

Artie Z.

Using brp’s thought about batting stats: They’re all HOFers who had 5 or less HRs in their career but hit at least one HR off of another HOFer? Brown – McGinnity Koufax – Spahn Ryan – Sutton Plank – Young Rixey – Haines Faber – Pennock Hubbell – Dean Chesbro – Nichols and Young Lyons – Ruffing and Hoyt I get 30 HOFers who hit 5 or less HRs in their careers from 1901-present. The other players on my list include 4 players who hit more than 5 HRs in their career if we count pre-1901: Billy Hamilton, Hugh Duffy,… Read more »

Reply to Artie Z.

Bingo.

Well done, Artie.

Reply to Doug

You gotta give brp some credit – I never would have thought to look at batting stats, and I was a little skeptical because I knew Koufax was awful (I believe he has the 4th lowest OPS+ for all players with more than 750 PAs – Ellsworth, Dean Chance, and Bob Buhl were the ones on the list worse than him), while Lyons had an OPS+ in the range of a slick fielding middle infielder (Belliard and Hal Lanier types). The only reason I found it was because I saw Koufax hit 2 HRs in his career and wondered who… Read more »

I thought of it because I couldn’t find any link at all on the pitching stats. These guys vary wildly in terms of pitching styles, longevity, etc.

However I certainly wouldn’t have checked the HR logs, so you can get 99% of the credit 🙂

Haines was a “Friend of Frankie Frisch”.

RC @18 – I’ve read the Politics of Glory book so many times that I have started to confuse Haines and Fitzsimmons.

aweb

Some were on many teams, some on just one, so that’s not it.

The ones I have looked at seem to have been very good at not allowing HR, except Koufax in his early years (it’s hard to judge the early guys though, HR rates were so low)…anything to do with HRs allowed?