33 thoughts on “Quiz – Double Trouble (solved)”

1. Voomo Zanzibar March 7, 2016 at 7:22 pm

   In Davenport’s 1968 season, he had ONE double in 307 PA…

   … though that has nothing to do with this quiz
   (even though it is called Double Trouble)

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   1. Doug March 7, 2016 at 8:49 pm

      That observation is related to the quiz.

      Davenport’s 1968 season is the last of 300 PA with XBH less than 1% of PAs. Dropping down to 250 PA finds Brett Butler (1982) and Julio Cruz (1986).

      Goat Anderson (1907) is the only player below 1% in a qualifying season (modern definition), with 510 PA and 5 XBH.

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      1. CursedClevelander March 7, 2016 at 10:02 pm

         Going into the 19th century, you get Herman Pitz, who played for one season in 1890 in the American Association. 346 PA, 0 XBH, and 39 SB. I looked him up a few months ago when I was checking for the most SB in a season without a 2B, most SB without a 3B, and most SB without a HR.

         Of course, 1890 was a season with 3 major leagues, as it was the only season of the Player’s League. The AA was already the NL’s little brother, and the addition of the Player’s League meant that a lot of marginal players were filling out AA (and NL, I’d assume) rosters. Pitz was obviously not an MLB caliber player, and with 1891 returning to a two league system, he never again played in the bigs.

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2. brp March 8, 2016 at 3:46 pm

   2012 Twins and 1979 Indians both have 3 guys with 500+ ABs who never hit 10 HRs in a season at any point in their career (some still active for Twins; Span & Revere).

   It seems to be something about multiple players on the roster with really low HR totals, which would explain the higher prevalence in earlier eras. Can’t pinpoint it beyond that.

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   1. Doug March 8, 2016 at 4:53 pm

      One the right track re: multiple players and 500 PA.

      But, it’s only about the seasons in question, not other seasons. And, not related to home runs (other than indirectly).

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      1. Richard Chester March 8, 2016 at 5:24 pm

         I ran the PI for 1946 to date for number of players on a team with 400+ PA and XBH less than .04*PA. All of of the teams on Doug’s list appeared but so did 57 others.

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         1. Richard Chester March 8, 2016 at 5:25 pm

            That’s for teams with at least 2 such players.

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3. Lawrence Azrin March 8, 2016 at 5:46 pm

   All eight teams listed above had at least five regulars with a SLG % less than .400??

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   1. Doug Post authorMarch 8, 2016 at 6:08 pm

      Slugging is related, and more directly than home runs.

      But, with regard to the number of players, bear in mind the title of the post.

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4. Luis Gomez March 8, 2016 at 6:22 pm

   Those teams had two players with more than 500 PA and 20 or less extra-base hits.

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   1. Doug Post authorMarch 8, 2016 at 6:40 pm

      Actually, one of the listed teams (the ’68 Giants) didn’t meet those criteria. And, two other teams not on the list (incl. a pennant winner) did.

      But, you’re on the right track.

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      1. Luis Gomez March 8, 2016 at 7:29 pm

         Before I posted my comment above, I checked the first six teams only, and I thought I had it. If I had looked at all the teams, I would have said 21 extra-base hits.

         After your reply, I considered SLG%. Except for the Twins, all those teams have two players with 500 PA and less than .315 SLG. The lowest SLG for 2012 Twins with 500 PA are .317 and .342, which I don´t think are very uncommon figures.

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         1. Doug Post authorMarch 8, 2016 at 8:13 pm

            The metric in question is not SLG or XBH. But, another metric closely related to SLG.

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            1. bstar March 8, 2016 at 8:27 pm

               I don’t have a P-I subscription right now, but I’d be willing to bet it’s ISO (isolated slugging percentage).
            2. bstar March 8, 2016 at 8:44 pm

               Doug, is it teams with two qualifiers with an ISO of 0.50 or less?
            3. Richard Chester March 8, 2016 at 8:47 pm

               bstar: you win the bet.
            4. Kahuna Tuna March 8, 2016 at 9:34 pm

               Ron Hunt met the criteria for both the 1968 Giants and the 1972 Expos. Proof positive that HBP are not a component of ISO. (-;þ
         2. Kahuna Tuna March 8, 2016 at 9:41 pm

            Doug, I don’t have a P-I subscription. Does the P-I show the ’79 Indians as having two or three position players with sub-.050 ISOs? If it shows them with two, I’d argue that—by the narrowest of margins—it’s wrong.

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            1. bstar March 8, 2016 at 9:53 pm

               I assume you’re talking about Tom Veryzer, who had 501 PA, one short of the 502 (162 G x 3.1 PA) needed to qualify for a rate stat leaderboard, but the Indians only played 161 games in ’79, so Veryzer really only needed 499 PA (161 G x 3.1 PA) to be a qualifier.
            2. Richard Chester March 8, 2016 at 10:00 pm

               The PI shows 2 ’79 Indians players as qualifiers with sub-.500 ISOs. Tom Veryzer, with 501 PA, does not show up. The Indians played 161 games that year but according to what I have read a player must have 3.1 times the number of scheduled games to qualify. But Fangraphs shows Veryzer as a qualifier.
            3. Kahuna Tuna March 8, 2016 at 10:05 pm

               bstar and Richard, you’ve both spotted the issue. I’d bet that B-Ref’s “non-qualifiers for rate stats” are assessed using a leaguewide constant of 162 games rather than the actual number of games each team played. I’ll probably report this to them as a very tiny bug—gnat size or smaller.
            4. e pluribus munu March 8, 2016 at 10:45 pm

               I think Richard is correct, and that the qualifying stat pertains not to the number of games played but the number of games scheduled. At least, that’s how I read 9.22(a), and as I’ve always understood it.
            5. Richard Chester March 9, 2016 at 1:34 am

               To Kahuna: If you are familiar with Fangraphs and Excel spreadsheet manipulation you can circumvent the PI and get your results.
            6. Kahuna Tuna March 9, 2016 at 11:26 am

               Richard and epm, you’re right about Rule 9.22(a). The language of the rule clearly ties rate-stat qualification to number of games scheduled. Sorry—I didn’t know what the flagnar I was talking about.
5. David P March 9, 2016 at 8:31 am

   That ’79 Indians team is remarkable in at least two ways:

   1) Two players with 500+ PAs and 0 homeruns. Looks like the most recent team to do that was the `86 Cardinals (Ozzie and Vince Coleman). The `76 Angels did it as well. I’m sure there are others but it can’t be that common in the post-Ruth era.

   2) They were led in WAR by a reliever! Sid Monge led all players, both pitchers and position players, with 5.6 WAR. That’s…WOW! Rare enough that a reliever leads his team in pitcher WAR, but to lead all players in WAR???!!!

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   1. Richard Chester March 9, 2016 at 11:29 am

      Since 1920 there have been 20 teams with 2 or more players with 500+ PA and 0 HR. The 1944 A’s and Senators had 3 such players. As mentioned the 1986 Cards were the last to do it.

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      1. Doug March 9, 2016 at 1:32 pm

         Pet Kozma had 111 PA last year with no extra-base hits. Mark Grudzeilanek’s .273 BA in 2010 is the highest in a 100 PA season with no XBH. Others to post such a season include: Mike Gallego (1995), Otis Nixon (1984), Paul Casanova (1974), Pat Corrales (1972) and Frank Baumholtz (1956).

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   2. Kahuna Tuna March 9, 2016 at 11:42 am

      1979 was the year Jim Kern had his big year as the Rangers’ closer (13-5, 1.57 ERA, 29 saves). The NBJHBA names Kern as the best pitcher in baseball that year. Yet according to B-Ref Kern’s 6.2 overall WAR did not lead his team—Buddy Bell had 6.9.

      John Hiller led the Tigers in overall WAR in his huge 1973 and 1974 seasons. (Hiller posted 8.1 WAR in ’73!) I’m sure a number of other examples can be found, especially on clubs with poor offenses.

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   3. Doug March 9, 2016 at 1:02 pm

      A few other relievers to lead their team in WAR.
      – Dick Radatz – ’62 & ’64 Red Sox
      – Dick Selma – ’70 Phillies
      – Tom Murphy – ’74 Brewers
      – Rich Gossage – ’75 White Sox
      – Greg Minton – ’82 Giants

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      1. Brendan Bingham March 10, 2016 at 12:58 pm

         Interesting that after Gossage had his best year with the White Sox in ’75, they made him a starter in ’76, and he was mediocre. Beginning in ’77 with Pittsburgh, he never started again.

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   4. AlbaNate March 17, 2016 at 11:59 pm

      I remember Monge, but I forgot how good he was. That’s the 11th highest WAR season ever for a pure reliever. Gossage’s mind-blowing 8.2 in 75′ is the best ever.

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6. no statistician but March 9, 2016 at 2:41 pm

   The list of 20 players with low ISO includes 6 HOFers and one future HOFer (Jeter) plus two arguable HOFers, Hack and Trammell, and two more, Milan And Gilliam, who were very good in relatively short careers. Evidently there’s more to baseball than Isolated Power, even if Bill James has a fetish about it.

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   1. Doug March 9, 2016 at 3:20 pm

      Admittedly, it’s 20 of only 65 one-franchise players with 1500+ career games since 1901 (incl. one active player, David Wright). 33 of the 65 are HOFers, four more are on the ballot, and two others (Jeter and Chipper) should be easy picks.

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