1960 NL MVP – Who Will Win the HHS Vote?

At the end of the COG, a lot of us were talking about a “next” project. Nothing has yet emerged or, more accurately, I haven’t found the time to follow-up some of the suggestions that were made. Thus, I’m delighted to introduce a new series authored by Dr. Doom, whom many of you will know from his frequent contributions as an HHS reader.

So, without further ado, I’ll let Dr. Doom introduce himself, after the jump.

Hey, y’all! Dr. Doom here, ghostwriting for Doug. Sorry I haven’t been around much lately. I had a little COG hangover here at HHS, and in March, my wife and I welcomed our first child into the world – a ten-pound future Prince Fielder or Rick Reuschel or something. As of his six-month appointment on Friday, he was in the 97th percentile for weight… so yeah. 😉

Anyway, I know I haven’t been super active in the last half-year, but I’m hoping to rectify that. I thought that maybe it would be worthwhile for me to try to put together one of the ideas we discussed: re-voting MVPs. I’m hoping to do so by writing this series (weekly, I hope) revisiting and re-voting seasons with several players worthy of MVP consideration.

Personally, my favorite thing here at HHS is the interesting discussions we have – it’s the reason the COG was so fun. Therefore, I’m not planning to put together EVERY MVP, because some of them are obvious. No one’s voting against Robin Yount in 1982 or Cal Ripken, Jr. in 1991 or Carl Yastrzemski in 1967 or Mickey Mantle in 1956, so I don’t want to re-hash things that are obvious. Likewise, I’m also not super interested in years in which the voters picked “wrong” between two candidates. Yes, maybe it’d be better if Ted Williams had those two MVPs over Joe DiMaggio. Maybe the world would be a more just place if Barry Bonds had topped Terry Pendleton in 1991. But those are binary choices that are more referenda on the voters and their lack of knowledge, instead of years when any of several candidates might have been a deserving choice.

What interests ME most, are those years when the choice isn’t easy – when there are three or more candidates, and not necessarily a “right” and “wrong” choice. Think this year’s AL Cy Young debate, if you want to know what I’m thinking about. I’m interested in how our community would choose to deal with some of the more challenging selections of the past. Some of these are years in which there are two or three players having “MVP-type seasons.” Some are years in which there’s really no one having an outstanding season, so the selection is difficult for that reason.

I have 14 seasons picked out, beginning in 1960 but with none from the last 10 years (I don’t want us to go TOO far back, but I think it’s best if we have a little bit of distance, as well). In each of these seasons,  there were reasons to reconsider the choice of the BBWAA. These are elections where there were multiple candidates with similar seasons. Sometimes, the winner was one of those players, and sometimes he wasn’t.

My thought was that we’d have 3-ish days of pure discussion, with no voting, and then take the next four days to re-vote, with descending 10-player ballots, scored 14-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1, just as the MLB award goes. If you feel like you can’t fill out all ten spots, that’s fine – but you have to fill out at least half. Ballots with fewer than five players named will be thrown out.

Now, I can’t require this of the rest of you, but I’m writing these posts without reference to WAR, not because I don’t use it (I think you all know that I do), but because it often wasn’t available to MVP voters. If you even want to make your selections without reference to it, more power to you. I kind of think I might do that, just so we’re not mechanically looking at WAR and listing the players in that order… because where’s the fun in that? But hey, reference what you want to, because looking at WAR can be interesting, too.

So, with all of that prelude out of the way, here’s the first post, and the first “controversial” election I have for us: the 1960 NL MVP race.

The 1960 season was, in many ways, the end of Major League Baseball as it had been. The following year, there would be a round of expansion. While teams had already moved and integration had happened, the baseball of 1960 still featured a 154-game season in both leagues and the same 16 franchises that had been duking it out for over a half-century. It was the last season in which the single-season HR record belonged to Babe Ruth. Although expansion would not reach the NL until two years later, this season was, in many ways, the last of the “good ol’ days.”

The NL “pennant race” was not much of one. The Pirates roared into first place for the first time on April 24th (their 11th game of the season and the 13th day overall). They gave up that lead two weeks later, but gained it back on May 18th – from which point they did not relinquish it. They weren’t even tied for first after July 24th. They won 95 games, outperforming their Pythagorean record by 3 games.

These, though, were the last vestiges of the “strength up the middle” years of MVP voting, wherein the BBWAA would pick a middle infielder, CF, P, or C as the MVP each season, usually from the pennant winner. In Pittsburgh’s case, a very balanced team with strong but not necessarily outstanding players all over the diamond, the honor fell to SS Dick Groat. Groat was a career .286 hitter entering 1960, but won a shocking batting title, hitting .325 (his career OBP entering ’60 had been only .324!), and in the days of batting averages and strength up the middle, that was all anyone needed. Never mind that his .325 was almost entirely empty – 25 2B, 6 3B, 6 HR, 85 R, and only 50 RBI! But he had a good glove and played a tough defensive position and won a batting title for a pennant winner in a cake walk, so what do you want from the voters?

Well, his teammate Don Hoak was the runner up, garnering 5 of the 6 1st-place votes Groat failed to receive. He played solid defense, as well, but added 16 HR to his .282 average, scored 97 and drove in 79, and his season got memorialized by one of my favorite moments from City Slickers, so there’s always that. The other 1st place vote that year also went to a Pirate – to Roberto Clemente, who batted .314 and paced the Bucs in RBI with 94, to go along with 16 HR and that gorgeous arm in RF. Oh… except it’s possible that none of those guys were the most valuable of the eyepatch-wearers. Vern Law was 20-9 with a 3.08 ERA in 271.2 innings, pacing the senior circuit with 18 complete games. Reliever Roy Face was also a popular down-ballot choice for MVP that year, going 10-8 in 114.2 stingy innings – 2.90 ERA, 1.064 WHIP, and what-weren’t-then-but-might-be-later 24 saves.

Milwaukee continued to be merely excellent instead of dynastic (perhaps justifying Bill James‘s claim that they were the team in baseball history to do the least with the most), winning 88 and outperforming their Pythagorean expectation by 4. Third-place St. Louis also outperformed their Pythagorean record, by SIX in their case, winning 86. Los Angeles, the previous year’s pennant-winner, fell back to fourth, and underperformed by 3, winning “only” 82. The Giants also finished about .500 (79 wins), and the rest of the second division was rounded out by the “usual suspects” – Cincinnati (67 wins), Chicago (60) and Philadelphia (59).

The Braves were led by the always-stellar combination of Eddie Mathews and Hank Aaron. Their numbers are indistinguishable from one another, basically – .277/.397/.551 with 108 R, 39 HR, and 124 RBI for one, and .292/.352/.566 with 102 R, 40 HR, and 126 RBI (and the league lead) for the other (Mathews’ stats listed first).

Willie Mays (.319/.381/.555 – scored 107, knocked in 103, belted 29 and swiped 25… and was WILLIE MAYS in CF) was his usual self. Ernie Banks, playing for a terrible team and beginning (only slightly) to show his age at SS, was just about as good a hitter as he’d been in the previous two seasons, during both of which he’d won MVP: .271/.350/.554 with a league-leading 41 HR, plus 117 RBI and 94 scored.

Two Cardinals, Lindy McDaniel and Ken Boyer, were the other standouts in 1960. McDaniel was the highest-finishing pitcher in the MVP vote that year (topping Vern Law in MVP votes, but trailing both Law and Warren Spahn in Cy Young votes), but only started two games. As a reliever, he appeared 65 times and went 12-4 with 27 saves (which, remember, weren’t counted in 1960). He had a 2.09 ERA and 105 Ks in 116.1 pitched. Boyer finally put it all together. His .304 average was right in line with his career mark (three of his previous five seasons had shown averages of .306, .307, and .309), but his SLG jumped from a previous high of .508 to .562, as he hit 26 doubles to go along with 32 homers. He rounded that out with 95 R and 97 RBI, and Ken Boyer defense at third.

So, who will it be? One of the pennant winners? A stalwart Brave? A Cardinal? A third consecutive MVP for Ernie Banks? The perpetual candidate Willie Mays? Or someone I didn’t even mention? Let the discussion (and voting) commence!

Leave a Reply

77 Comments on "1960 NL MVP – Who Will Win the HHS Vote?"

Notify of
avatar
Sort by:   newest | oldest | most voted
David P
Guest

Welcome back Doom and congrats on the child!

Definitely looking forward to this series. But a couple of questions first. We just cast one vote for the person who think should have won, correct? And when is the voting deadline?

Artie Z.
Guest
Despite his infamy as being the player traded for Lou Brock, Ernie Broglio had a really good season. He won 21 games (7 in relief). He pitched in 52 games, starting 24 of them, completing 9 of those 24 starts. He finished 14 games (though no saves – not even retroactively), and finished 2nd on the team in IP with 226.1. I’m not sure he’s the MVP, just thought his usage was interesting. He looked to be a spot starter until about July, and then became part of the rotation. Still pitched a little in relief though. Led the league… Read more »
David P
Guest

Honestly, I’ve looked at this a couple of times and I have absolutely no idea. For me, this year feels way too complicated. No one stands out. As Artie Z. says Groat’s not a terrible choice. But that’s basically damming with faint praise. Who else? Mays had by far the most WAR. But without WAR, he doesn’t stand out above about 5-10 other people. I feel like I could just toss a bunch of names in a hat and pull them out and do just as well.

Dr. Doom
Guest
David P (@6), if you think this one is tough, wait’ll you see some of the others that are coming down the pipe! At least this year HAS a clear WAR leader. There are some years with this much confusion, and no one standing head-and-shoulders above the rest. Doug (@7) and Artie (@5), I would probably agree with you, that Robinson and Broglio should be in the conversation. I left them out because, basically, the BBWAA did. Also, I didn’t want these posts to be just me listing all the options; I know how much people love poking around on… Read more »
oneblankspace
Guest

Vada Pinson also had a pretty good year for a not-so-good team (the 6th-place Reds). He finished in the top 4 in GP (3), PA, AB, R, H, 2B, 3B, SB (and CS); as an outfielder GP, GS, CG, innings, and PO; as a centerfielder, Assists (and errors). And he played in both All-Star Games, with a walk and a strikeout, and six innings in centerfield.

David P
Guest

OBS – Pinson was a bit before my time but I had his baseball card as a kid (I think from ’73). I remember staring and staring and staring at it, wondering what happened. At age 26, he seemed a certain HOFer. And then, nothing. Not that he was terrible post age-26, but his career definitely didn’t live up to the early expectations. Him and Cesar Cedeno remain the great mysteries of my childhood.

no statistician but
Guest

Actually, another player who followed the same pattern was Fred Lynn. He hit some higher heights, and because he walked quite a bit his OPS+ is a lot higher, but he showed a lot of promise early and, possibly because of being injury prone, faded into being a good player but nothing like what he had been.

David P
Guest

NSB – As far as I know/remember, Lynn’s fade was 100% attributed to injuries (seems a common problem in CF; see Grady Sizemore for another example). Whereas Pinson’s and Cedeno’s fades were much more mysterious.

Voomo Zanzibar
Guest

What is the mystery with Cedeno?
He was great.
For a decade.
Playing CF and stealing 50-60 bases a year… on astroturf.
Probably why it was only a decade.

But he certainly had hype…

“At 22 Cedeno is as good or better than Willie was at the same age. I don’t know whether he can keep this up for 20 years, and I’m not saying he will be better than Mays. No way anybody can be better than Mays. But I will say this kid has a chance to be as good. And that’s saying a lot.””
– Leo Durocher

David P
Guest

Voomo –

From age 19-29, Cedeno accumulated 49.2 WAR, and had a very good shot at the HOF. But then his 30s came, and he only accumulated 3.5 more WAR. That’s a huge dropoff. No one really seems to know what happened though he did have some injuries as well as some personal problems.

Voomo Zanzibar
Guest

Right. I guess it doesn’t seem like a mystery to me because I’m making an assumption that the turf aged his legs.

979 games on turf through those 11seasons.
As a CF who attempted 70 steals a year.

It would be a mystery to me if he played at a high level any longer than that.

David P
Guest
Doesn’t seem like the turf was the main issue. Here’s what I’ve uncovered. He missed most of 1978 after tearing knee ligaments, sliding into second base. In 1979, he contracted hepatitis and lost 14 pounds. In 1980, he bounces back and has his best season in a couple of years, only to break his ankle in the playoffs. On top off that, back in 1973, his girlfriend was killed in a hotel room and Cedeno was charged with involuntary manslaugher. He was heckled for the rest of his career (in 1981 he went into the stands, after a fan who… Read more »
Bryan O'Connor
Editor

“No way anybody can be better than Mays”… unless Mays presides over the baptism of some future god, imbuing that child with Willie’s own greatness to supplement hereditary gifts.

But that could never happen.

Steven
Guest

Cedeno had a “Most Valuable Month” for the 1985 Cardinals, who acquired him after Jack Clark was injured. He hit .434 in 28 games, helping the Cardinals hold off the Mets for the NL East title. His career was pretty much done after that season.

John
Guest

As I recall, Pinson had bad knees in the latter part of his career, which took down his HOF chances. I still think there’s a case for his inclusion. (If HighPockets Kelly can be in the HOF, ANYBODY can be in the HOF!)

Dr. Doom
Guest
For some reason, Dave Parker isn’t ever talked about as them, but he’s basically the same, right? 32.4 WAR and an MVP through his age-28 season, 1.5 WAR the next, and then over three quarters of his remaining 6 WAR came in one season (4.7 in 1985). It’s a very similar case, and made even more interesting (in my mind, anyway) by the fact that he and Cedeno are less than 4 months apart in age! They also played together for the 1984 and ’85 Reds. You know – you can made a Hall of Famer out of Cedeno and… Read more »
oneblankspace
Guest

Parker signed on as hitting coach in St Louis during the McGwire era to get his name in front of the HOF voters again.

Howard
Guest

Johnny Callison was another one. Of course there will be more on him when the 1964 MVP vote is discussed.

Mike L
Guest

Dr. Doom, congratulations. I’m curious–for a Bonus Baby that size, have you already received a call from Scott Boras–just preliminary, of course?
Just noticing that Groat was the second to last player to be MVP with a SP below .400 (Maury Wills did it in 1962, but that was also the year he broke Ty Cobb’s SB record). Here’s a list of all MVP position players with SP below .400
Nellie Fox, 1959
Phil Rizzuto, 1950
Marty Marion, 1944
Frankie Frisch 1931
Roger Peckinpaugh 1925

Dr. Doom
Guest
I’m not sure what Rizzuto is doing on your list; his SLG was .439 in 1950. Unsurprisingly, these are some of the worst MVP selections of all-time, with a very notable exception*. *I’m not going to talk about 1960, because obviously you can see more info about that above. I’m also not going to talk about 1962 because… well… you’ll see why in next week’s post. 🙂 Fox was, by WAR, the 2nd-most valuable position player in the AL in 1959, at 6.0 (Mantle was at 6.6). In the NBJHBA, Bill James had Fox as MORE valuable than Mantle in… Read more »
Mike L
Guest

Doom–I obviously Phailed on Phil.

Dr. Doom
Guest
I also just realized something that I think is a little odd. I would throw out Peckingpaugh’s season (it was before the modern award, which started in 1931). Here are those seasons again: Frankie Frisch (1937) Marty Marion (1944) Nellie Fox (1959) Dick Groat (1960) Maury Wills (1962) As mentioned above, Fox’s season was a legitimately great one, and his winning the award is not unreasonable. But if the others go down as “bad” selections, isn’t it a bit odd that they’re ALL in the NL? I think that’s strange, in the same way that I think it’s strange that… Read more »
Mike L
Guest
Doom, it might be coincidence, but I also think the NL was thought of as a smaller-ball pitching and defense league. The Yankees were dominant mashers–arbitrarily picking the period from Frisch’s 1937 to Wills’ 1962, the Yankees won the pennant all but five years, and it’s possible that the AL was defined by their personality. One point I wanted to make about Wills. In 1962, in a ten team league, Wills had 13% of all steals in the NL. By comparison, Cobb’s 1915 existing record of 96, in an 8 team league, was only 6.6% of the AL total.
no statistician but
Guest

Mike L:

The AL stopped being the power league in 1947 and didn’t regain that status until expansion. From 1947 through 1959 the NL dominated in HRs, sometimes by as many as 300 (1197/879 in 1953) due to a variety of factors, notably the adjustments to field size in the NL and the impact of Ralph Kiner’s big bat in the shrunken Forbes Field. In 1960 the AL eked out a 44 HR lead for the first time since 1946.

To me, anyway, growing up in the ’50’s, it was the NL that was the power league.

Mike L
Guest

NSB, I realize I worded that poorly. In the AL, the Yankees were the dominant team–and during that 1937-62 stretch they took 14 MVPs, and it’s possible the writers, in choosing an AL MVP, related to Yankee power, etc. To come back to your point, I think that the non-Yankee part of the AL was generally considered somewhat inferior to the NL for part of that period.

Dr. Doom
Guest
I’ve been looking over these numbers for a couple of days now. I’m having a really hard time separating Mays, Mathews, Aaron, Banks, and Boyer. They’re all right there in SLG – .551-.566 is the spread for the whole lot. They all played 151+ games (that’s kinda why I’m leaving Frank Robinson out of this discussion, at least for now – Mays, Banks, Aaron, and Mathews are all within 14 PAs of one another; Boyer is 50 behind, Robinson is another 50 behind THAT). All of them hit 29-41 HR. Admittedly, that’s kind of a big spread, but the fewest… Read more »
Brendan Bingham
Guest
Dr. Doom: Very nice analysis, but I disagree with dinging Boyer for having fewer PA than the other elite NL position players. His Cardinals team was decidedly below average at the plate. As a team they scored 16 fewer runs than league average and had almost 100 fewer PA than league average, whereas the teams for which Mays, Aaron, Mathews and Banks played had either league average or above average PAs. The differences among these teams do not account for all of Boyer’s shortfall – maybe a third of it. But still, it’s not entirely Boyer’s fault. When you’re on… Read more »
Dr. Doom
Guest
Fair enough, Brendan. Honestly, though, with this group, it feels like some of those hairs HAVE to be split; what do you use as a guide? PAs may not be fair, but I had to look for SOMETHING! And if I WEREN’T to consider it… I’d probably still have him 5th in the group. HIs strongest showing is in batting average, and that’s the least important one. He was worst in participating in the runs for his team, which, unlike PAs, should even out – a great player on a bad team would score/drive in a HIGHER percentage of runs.… Read more »
Brendan Bingham
Guest
I agree that hairs need to be split, and as a group that’s something HHS is pretty good at. Good point about Boyer not standing out in terms of % of team runs, as might be expected of a great player on a poor team. I do not know how I would rank the five players. Obviously, this is something I will need to come to grips with in the next couple days if I’m going to vote intelligently. For the moment, I’m thinking Mays and Mathews (not necessarily in that order) ahead of Aaron, Banks and Boyer (again not… Read more »
Bryan O'Connor
Editor
I love this project, Doom. For all the tremendous work Doug has done to keep this site worth visiting, this is the kind of exercise that will make it a daily must-read for me again. My initial thoughts on 1960: There’s certainly been a shift in MVP voting, not necessarily toward WAR, but toward rewarding great players rather than players on great teams. WAR tends to tell us a lot about talent and the various ways it manifests itself on the baseball field. In an eight-team league in the ‘50s, the best players were probably the best players year-in and… Read more »
no statistician but
Guest
I think it would be good to look at the vote that actually existed in more detail. Dick Groat was not just the winner; the voting wasn’t even close. It’s a little annoying to me, I must admit, that the baseball writers of earlier eras—or our current one—are dismissed with such easy and glib comments as, for instance, “well they were blinded by his BA”— or his HRs, or his RBIs. They always seem to have been blinded by something that we in our purer view would not have been. The fact remains, I suppose, that they were blinded by… Read more »
Dr. Doom
Guest
There are some good points in there, NSB. Permit me to make a few of my own. First is that I don’t think this was a notably “bad” selection. There have been many worse. He was a pretty good player, having a pretty good year. Not at all a bad selection. I didn’t say they were “blinded.” I just think that noting that this was the “strength up the middle” era (objectively true, looking at MVP voting), and noting that it was ALSO a high-batting average era (again, as borne out by studying the MVPs of the time) shows that… Read more »
David P
Guest
I don’t know. I’m kind of with NSB on this one. 1960 was nearly a decade before I was born so I have zero context for what happened that season and why the voters might have chosen Groat. (tried finding some newspaper articles from that era but came up empty). And trying to ascertain motives of the voters 50 years after the fact seems like a bit of a wild goose chase. Was Groat a bad choice? Maybe. I just don’t know. And it’s not like there’s anyone else who really jumps out as being above the crowd unless one… Read more »
no statistician but
Guest
Dr. Doom @ 32: 1) I’m not plumping for Groat as the MVP, so if that’s your assumption it’s a wrong’un. Being a Yankee fan, I wasn’t much concerned with what was going on in the NL that year, I admit. It was a three team dogfight—Yanks, ChiSox, and Orioles—and the Yanks and Orioles were tied in first with the Sox a game or so back on Sept 15. Then the Yanks won their final 15 games. The big ongoing NL news was that the Pirates seemed to be about to break their jinx—the ’27 Yankees jinx—just as the White… Read more »
no statistician but
Guest

That would be for NL beat writers who traveled with their teams only, of course.

Hartvig
Guest
A couple of other names that probably belong in this conversation: Don Drysdale He didn’t make either of the All Star games (his 15-14 W/L record probably had something to do with that) but it was one of his best seasons. Almost 270 IP’s, led the league in strikeouts & 3rd in ERA in the hitter-friendly LA Coliseum (second in ERA+). I can see why he didn’t get a lot of support because of his W-L record but he deserved better. Bob Friend Another case where I can see why he didn’t get a lot of love from the voters… Read more »
no statistician but
Guest

A comment not related to the subject:

Why have the Red Sox suddenly taken over the AL east? Well, Toronto has folded, yeah, but it’s mainly the amazing BoSox pitching. Earlier in the year the team was ranking 10th or so in runs allowed, whereas now it is in a virtual tie for 3rd, meaning that the staff has more than made up for its earlier vagaries. If the pitching and hot bats of Ortiz and Betts keep going, the team is going to be a daunting proposition in the playoffs.

Voomo Zanzibar
Guest

Last 21 games
16-5

129 R
62 RA

6.14
2.95

Voomo Zanzibar
Guest

Hey, I just noticed the Twitter sidebar, and clicked on it for the first time. It seems that HHS has a robust and active life on that platform. Been wondering where all the activity on this fine site went to, and now I see.

oneblankspace
Guest
From http://bbwaa.com/voting-faq/ , where they italicize this text: Dear Voter: There is no clear-cut definition of what Most Valuable means. It is up to the individual voter to decide who was the Most Valuable Player in each league to his team. The MVP need not come from a division winner or other playoff qualifier. The rules of the voting remain the same as they were written on the first ballot in 1931: 1. Actual value of a player to his team, that is, strength of offense and defense. 2. Number of games played. 3. General character, disposition, loyalty and effort.… Read more »
Dr. Doom
Guest

Please continue the interesting discussions, everyone! But I also want to let you know that we’re ready to receive ballots, whenever you want to post yours! Post at least 5 names in your preferred order by midnight on Sunday, and your ballot will be counted. Vote away!

no statistician but
Guest

May we give reasons and commentary, or are we confined to a list?

Dr. Doom
Guest

Yes, please do! Discuss as long as you would like. Just make sure it’s clear that you’re making your final list.

no statistician but
Guest
OK: Now is the time I have available to do this before Monday so I’m going ahead. Yeah, it’s a logjam, and depending on which emphases you place on the available data, you can come up with different outcomes. I think Dick Groat was a very good choice, as I’ve made clear in other comments, but he isn’t my choice, because the data I always look at in these types of judgments focuses on such things as how well the player did in what used to be called clutch situations, how well he did in late innings, how well he… Read more »
Hartvig
Guest
I go back and forth on the issue of starting pitchers & the MVP, especially now since few get more than 35 starts in a season and you can count the guys who pitched as many as 250 innings in the century on your fingers (assuming you have at least 9). One thing that makes it difficult to calculate is that when considering them for the MVP I think you need to take their hitting into account. If I were just voting for Cy Young I would rank Bob Friend ahead of Vern Law. But for MVP I’m not sure… Read more »
Voomo Zanzibar
Guest

1. Ernie Broglio
2. Ernie Banks
3. Willie Mays
4. Eddie Mathews
5. Lindy McDaniel
6. Dick Groat
7. Ken Boyer
8. Frank Robinson
9. Vern Law
10. Don Drysdale

--bill
Guest

1. Hank Aaron
2. Dick Groat
3. Eddie Mathews
4. Willie Mays
5. Ernie Banks
6. Ernie Broglio
7. Don Drysdale
8. Don Hoak
9. Lindy McDaniel
10. Ken Boyer

Gary Bateman
Guest

1. Willie Mays
2. Dick Groat
3. Eddie Mathews
4. Ken Boyer
5. Hank Aaron
6. Frank Robinson
7. Ernie Banks
8. Ernie Broglio
9. Roberto Clemente
10.Del Crandall

This was certainly a team championship for the Pirates. I think a pretty strong case can be made for Groat deserving the MVP, but he was very nearly the only Pirate who I felt deserved an MVP vote.

Dr. Doom
Guest
1. Willie Mays 2. Ernie Banks 3. Eddie Mathews 4. Hank Aaron 5. Ken Boyer 6. Frank Robinson 7. Dick Groat 8. Ernie Broglio 9. Vada Pinson 10. Del Crandall Toughest calls for me were at the very top and bottom. I’ll start with the bottom. Shout-out to Roberto Clemente, whom I very nearly left on my ballot. But Gary Bateman’s choice of Del Crandall caused me to look into his year more. It was a pretty sensational year for a catcher, catching 141 games, batting .294/.334/.430 with 19 HR, 81 scored and 77 driven in. That’s with an excellent… Read more »
Dr. Doom
Guest
A fun little thing that I’ll add here. Bill James has pointed out that most players end their career with the same number of hits, secondary bases (TB-H+SB+BB), and R+RBI. Through yesterday’s games, for example, there were 39850 H this year, 41964 Secondary Bases, and 40064 R+RBI – not identical, but pretty close – within 5%, which is good enough for me. Anyway, this means that, if a player DOES do this, his batting average alone is a perfectly accurate representation of him as a hitter – see George Brett – because it implies the number of runs in which… Read more »
Dr. Doom
Guest

Somehow, I missed:
Ernie Banks – .343

Dr. Doom
Guest

Sunday is your final day to get your votes in! Don’t forget!
I’ll post a recap on this thread with final tallies, and the next rebound should go up Monday!

Chris C
Guest

1 Aaron
2 Groat
3 Mays
4 Matthews
5 Broglio
6 Robinson
7 Hoak
8 Boyer
9 Banks
10 Law

e pluribus munu
Guest
Congratulations to Doom on the birth of Dr. Jr., and on his terrific early season stats! It’s been a while since I logged on, and I’m sorry to have missed being part of this discussion. I think this sort of project can be a lot of fun, and I’m glad Doom has initiated it, but for various reasons I don’t now have a way to participate responsibly in the vote. I’d like to add a few comments, though, after reading through the discussion. The most germane concerns Doom’s #32 response to NSB #30 (who was backed by David P #36)… Read more »
Hartvig
Guest
I’ve written 2 long comments- one of which was my assessment of the 5 teams that finished over .500 in 1960 & the other detailing a few of my thoughts as to what MVP means- and my quite aged computer decided to reboot my internet browser when I was almost finished with the first one and about halfway thru the second. So here’s my list without any of the rationale behind it, which I may or may not try to include in a later comment. 1) Ken Boyer 2) Eddie Mathews 3) Willie Mays 4) Lindy McDaniel 5) Ernie Banks… Read more »
ATarwerdi96
Guest

1) Willie Mays
2) Eddie Mathews
3) Lindy McDaniel
4) Dick Groat
5) Hank Aaron
6) Ken Boyer
7) Ernie Banks
8) Frank Robinson
9) Don Hoak
10) Del Crandall

Hub Kid
Guest
1) Eddie Mathews 2) Willie Mays 3) Hank Aaron 4) Dick Groat 5) Ken Boyer 6) Ernie Banks 7) Frank Robinson 8) Don Hoak 9) Vada Pinson 10) Don Drysdale This is a nifty way to think about historical seasons- great idea and great work, Dr. Doom. I have been idiosyncratic here, mostly because this is for fun, and I have used WAR a bit, although I’ve accounted for Pittsburgh’s pennant and the winning teams slightly. And I’ve moved Mathews up mostly because I like the BB & OBP. I don’t like pitchers as MVPs unless they had a transcendent… Read more »
Brendan Bingham
Guest

1) Mays
2) Mathews
3) Aaron
4) Banks
5) Boyer
6) Groat
7) McDaniel
8) F Robinson
9) Crandall
10) Broglio

Dr. Doom
Guest
Your 1960 MVP is Willie Mays! This is the order in which all listed players finished (first place votes in parentheses): Mays – 101 (3) Mathews – 93 (2) Aaron – 70 (2) Groat – 68 Boyer – 58 (1) Banks – 55 Broglio – 38 (1) McDaniel – 34 Robinson – 28 Hoak – 15 Clemente – 12 Drysdale – 6 Crandall – 5 Pinson – 4 Law – 3 The top six finishers were named on all ballots, except for Hank Aaron, whom Voomo left off his ballot. Of the bottom five finishers, Del Crandall was named on… Read more »
no statistician but
Guest
Doom: I count ten ballots, not nine, Mays with four first place votes, 2 seconds, 3 thirds, one 6th. Mathews second with 2 firsts, 3 seconds, 3 thirds, 2 fourths. Outcome the same, of course. Also, since I’m home briefly but heading out again for a few days, I’d like to get in a short preliminary comment on the next election before the voting starts. Here goes: Maury Wills won the 1962 NL award, and again, it wasn’t a terrible choice. He was a spark-plug on base, scored a lot, disrupted the opposing team in a way that hadn’t been… Read more »
Dr. Doom
Guest

You are spot on. I just didn’t count that one first-place vote, but the totals are correct. Thanks for the catch.

Agree about Wills – not a terrible choice. But 1962 WAS a terribly interesting year in the NL, and there were a LOT of good candidates, not just limited to Mays, Wills, and Robinson, either!

Mike L
Guest

I managed to fail to vote–I’m still grieving over the Yankees-Toronto series–but I think Matthews loses for a fairly simple reason in the BB writers minds: His 1960 season was not as good as his 1959 season, when he finished 2nd in the MVP vote. I realize there isn’t that much of a difference, but particularly in the marquee stats like HR, BA, and SP, they were all down. Makes it easier for the voters to diminish Matthews empiric and comparative accomplishments–perhaps they thought they could not reward him.

oneblankspace
Guest

I wrote out a list before voting opened, but my desk ate it, and I was toooo busy grading exams this weekend (71 total across three classes/two courses).

Dr. Doom
Guest

Well, hopefully Doug will be posting the next round soon, and you can be sure to take part in that one!

bstar
Guest

Echoing OBS’s story, I was also too busy to participate in this first one. Doom, any way we could extend the vote next time to more than a few days (maybe a week after discussion ends?)

trackback

[…] just finished up our discussion on the 1960 NL MVP, so you’d figure that we’re going to zip ahead a few years, maybe switch leagues.  But […]

wpDiscuz