Kansas City A’s

55 Replies

With Kansas City playing the A’s in a wild card showdown, it’s worth remembering that for thirteen seasons “Kansas City” and “the A’s” referred to the same team. The years 1955 to 1967 did not comprise the most distinguished era of Athletics franchise history, but:

—Joe Gordon and Lou Boudreau are not only both Hall of Famers who have been battling for position in recent Circle of Greats voting here at High Heat Stats, they were also both managers of the Kansas City A’s.
–Three of the more productive players for the Kansas City A’s (and the word “productive” in this context is a highly relative term) were Dick Williams, who managed the A’s to two World Series championships, Dick Howser, who managed Kansas City to a World Championship, and Whitey Herzog, who managed Kansas City and managed the cross-state Cardinals to a World Series championship.

Wins Above Replacement (baseball-reference version) might suggest something like the following for an All-Kansas City A’s team, such as it is:
C Hal Smith
1B Norm Siebern or Vic Power
2B Jerry Lumpe
SS Wayne Causey or Bert Campaneris
3B Ed Charles
UT Hector Lopez
LF Bob Cerv
CF Bill Tuttle
RF Roger Maris (with cameo appearances by Rocky Colavito and Enos Slaughter)
SP Ray Herbert
SP Ned Garver
SP Bud Daley
SP Orlando Pena
SP Catfish Hunter
RP Tom Gorman
RP Jack Aker

0 0 votes

Article Rating

55 Comments

Oldest

Newest Most Voted

Inline Feedbacks

View all comments

Doug

9 years ago

Bud Daley (1959-60) and Ned Garver (1958) authored Kansas City’s lone 200 IP seasons with a .500 or better record. That’s three such seasons in 13 years. Ouch! The As finished 6th their first season in KC. They would finish 7th or lower every other season there, part of a 35-year run (1934-68) in which they never finished higher than 4th. Included were 16 last place finishes, 9 of which came in just 12 years from 1935 to 1946. Possibly the As most satisfying season in KC was in 1966 when their 15-9 finish was the difference in beating out… Read more »

Author

birtelcom

9 years ago

I inadvertently left John Wyatt off the All-Kansas City A’s team initially, but have now added him in his proper place.

Voomo Zanzibar

9 years ago

12 of the 20 players on the “All KC A’s” team also played for the Yankees.

Richard Chester

9 years ago

Reply to Voomo Zanzibar

And two, Vic Power and Hal Smith, were originally in the Yankee farm system but were traded away.

Editor

Doug

9 years ago

Reply to Voomo Zanzibar

In all, there are 59 players who played for the As and Yankees from 1955 to 1967. Of those 59, these 13 played 100+ games for both franchises. Rk Player 1 Clete Boyer 2 Hector Lopez 3 Roger Maris 4 Hank Bauer 5 Andy Carey 6 Norm Siebern 7 Enos Slaughter 8 Bob Cerv 9 Art Ditmar 10 Jerry Lumpe 11 Marv Throneberry 12 Billy Hunter 13 Roger Repoz Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool UsedGenerated 9/30/2014. Over those 13 seasons, these two teams executed 21 different transactions. Not so many recently, as the Yankees acquisition of Jeff… Read more »

bstar

9 years ago

Add to my B-Ref wish list: a franchise page solely for the KC A’s. I get it, they’re the same franchise as the Philly and Oakland A’s. But I’d love to see pics of the top 20 WAR guys while they were in KC (such a cool feature) instead of having to use the P-I.

Same thing with the Atlanta Braves. I’m much more interested in the top 20 WAR guys for the Braves while in Atlanta than seeing multiple pictures of Braves from the 1890s in the top 20 for the franchise overall (no disrespect meant to Kid Nichols).

Lawrence Azrin

9 years ago

Reply to bstar

I don’t know who had the best single season by WAR, but I can’t imagine anyone having a better season for the Kansas City A’s than: BOB CERV/1958 .305 (6th)/.371/.592 (2nd); 38 HR, 104 RBI – all in 141 G, 571 PA 4th in MVP voting; batted cleanup in the AS Game his WAR was 6.3, 3rd among position players, by far his highest; next-best was 1.3 several times Yeah, I’d also like to see separate displays of the Top-20 WAR guys for the LA Dodgers, SF Giants etc… Ones for the 1969 Seattle Pilots or the 1901 Milwaukee Brewers… Read more »

Author

birtelcom

9 years ago

Reply to Lawrence Azrin

Top Single Season WAR (b-ref version) by a Kansas City Athletic:
1. Bob Cerv (1958) 6.3
2. Ray Herbert (1960) 6.0
3. Norm Siebern (1962) 5.5
4. Catfish Hunter (1967) 5.4 (including 0.7 batting WAR)
5. Bud Daley (1959) 5.0 (including 0.7 batting WAR)
6. Ed Charles (1962) 4.8

Shard

9 years ago

I lived in Kansas City from 1963 to 1967 and I thought the A’s were on their way when they finished 7th in 1966. They were on their way alright, to Oakland. My next door neighbor in Kansas City was a Yankee fan. The reason I hate the Yankees now.

Phil

9 years ago

KC question that I’ll throw out here…How far do you have to go back to find a playoff team with fewer HR from its club leader than Alex Gordon’s 19? That seems like a deadball relic—the ’63 Dodgers had Frank Howard with 28, and even the ’73 Mets got 23 from John Milner.

Editor

John Autin

9 years ago

Reply to Phil

Phil, this is unofficial, but — The ’76 Royals were led by Amos Otis’s 18 HRs. The ’74 Orioles were led by Bobby Grich’s 19 HRs. And the 1982 WS Champion Cardinals were led by George Hendrick’s 19.

Phil

9 years ago

Reply to John Autin

Thanks, John. I also thought of the ’59 White Sox, but Sherm Lollar had 22.

Editor

John Autin

9 years ago

Reply to Phil

Terry Puhl led the 1980 Astros with 13 HRs.

Phil

9 years ago

Reply to John Autin

There you go—gotta be the most anemic team leader post-Ruth. The Astros didn’t even finish last in the league; the Mets and the Padres hit even fewer.

Editor

Doug

9 years ago

Reply to John Autin

I’ll give you 12 with two Dodgers teams: 1965 with Lou Johnson and Jim Lefebvre; and 1947 with Jackie Robinson and Pee Wee Reese.

And, 11 for the 1933 Senators with Joe Kuhel.

Down to single digits with 9 for the 1927 Pirates with Paul Waner and Glenn Wright.

Richard Chester

9 years ago

Reply to John Autin

1968 Cards led by Orlando Cepeda with 16 HR
1965 Dodgers led by Lou Johnson and Jim Lefebvre with 12
1947 Dodgers led by Robinson and Reese with 12.

I have ignored 1981. So far I have searched my spreadsheet back to 1946.

Phil

9 years ago

Reply to Richard Chester

Eventually you guys are going to find a playoff team led by Mario Mendoza or Mark Belanger.

Richard Chester

9 years ago

Reply to Richard Chester

Other teams, I’m too lazy to look up the players.
1931, 1942, 1943 Cards
1932, 1938 Cubs
1924, 1933 Senators
1927 Pirates
1922 Giants
1920 Dodgers
1920 Indians

9 years ago

Reply to Phil

The champion 2012 Giants had Posey at 24 homers and no one else above 12.

Editor

John Autin

9 years ago

Game break: Country Breakfast brings home some bacon, then lays an egg. “Billy, don’t be a hero…”

9 years ago

Reply to John Autin

I did not have “Billy Butler gets picked off” on my bingo card.

Editor

John Autin

9 years ago

Reply to RJ

I did not have “Yordano Ventura inherits the tying and lead runs with none out.”

Editor

John Autin

9 years ago

Reply to RJ

Ned Yost picked an odd time to break out of his bullpen roles. Ventura’s relieved twice in his last four pro seasons.

Brent

9 years ago

Reply to John Autin

I really think we ought to lay off Billy on that play. Yost made it pretty clear that was a designed play.

And yes running the designed get picked off first on purpose so the runner on third can score while you are in the rundown with your two worst baserunners is only a plan Yost could have designed.

Voomo Zanzibar

9 years ago

Reply to Brent

Butler is slow, but he did his job on that play.

And Perez and Moustakas are worse choices than Hosmer.
Hosmer is 41/12 in SB for his career.

And Gordon? Good hitter, but…

25 PA against Lester. 10 strikeouts
.160 .214 .240

And it was an 0-2 count.

Yost is stupid because it failed.
The other 7 steals were the difference in the game.

bstar

9 years ago

Reply to Voomo Zanzibar

After the game Yost said both Butler and Hosmer broke at the wrong times. He said Butler broke too early and Hosmer too late. Considering the Royals have been a bit offensively-challenged this year, I don’t think the strategy was the problem. It was just poorly executed. What are the odds of scoring Hosmer with two outs and an 0-2 count with a very good LHP vs. an LHB? Gotta be less than 20%. Just guessing, but I think the odds of Hosmer scoring on that play were higher than that considering he almost made it even with the play… Read more »

Editor

John Autin

9 years ago

Six players stealing a base for one team: One prior postseason game, by the 1907 Cubs.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CHN/CHN190710080.shtml

Editor

John Autin

9 years ago

And four sac bunts by one AL team — Fourth time in the postseason, including “Joba vs. The Midges.”
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CLE/CLE200710050.shtml

Not since 2010 in the regular season.

ReliefMan

9 years ago

Halfway through the season, the A’s were a mortal lock to make it into October. Who would have guessed they get stopped short by all of seven minutes?

Doug

9 years ago

Seven stolen base and four sacrifice bunts – first time in the post-season, and first time anytime in the live ball era.

Seven different players with a stolen base has happened only once before in the live ball era, when 8 Oakland As (including Don Baylor and Gene Tenace) swiped 12 bases in 1976. But, like tonight, those As took a 12th inning lead and couldn’t hold it.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/MIN/MIN197608011.shtml

Editor

Doug

9 years ago

You can add Billy Martin and Tom Lasorda to your list of Kansas City As to become managers.

Martin, of course, managed the As, and those two dueled in the 1977 World Series. Lasorda was also an As killer in the 1988 WS, not least with a particular first game pinch-hitter choice to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

Author

birtelcom

9 years ago

Highest WPA for a hitter in a “sudden death” post-season game:
1. Francisco Cabrera (1992 NLCS) .737
2. Hal Smith (1960 World Series) .636 (see the main post above for his spot on the All-Kansas City A’s team)
3. Eric Hosmer .590 (last night)

mosc

9 years ago

I feel bad for the CURRENT A’s. They threw away a lot of their farm for pitchers they weren’t even able to use (Jeff Samardzija, all of 6 pitches from Hammel). At least Lester pitched decently (Gregerson let two inherited runners through on an otherwise 7.1IP 4ER outing). I just wonder how much they’ll look at Addison Russell or Billy McKinney and cry. Win NOW doesn’t have to succeed but with the best team in baseball before the break squeaking in and barely making a dent in the post season, it’s hard to swallow that game as worth what they… Read more »

Lawrence Azrin

9 years ago

Reply to mosc

Apparently Billy Beane’s s%i# _still_ doesn’t work in the playoffs…

With essentially four series, MLB’s playoffs are more of a crap shot than a lot of baseball people would like to admit. It not like the pre-division (1969) days – ‘win the pennant, advance directly to the World Series’.

Doug

9 years ago

Reply to mosc

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!

I thought Cal Ripken had a trenchant comment last night about why the As offense suddenly collapsed after Cespedes was dealt. It wasn’t that Cespedes’s lost offensive contribution made that much of a difference. Rather, with him gone, the other players were no longer in their comfort zones and started to press to make up for the lost offense. Which, of course, never works.

Editor

John Autin

9 years ago

Reply to Doug

If that “comfort zones” thing is true, then shame on those A’s. Didn’t they basically define themselves in the first half as the team that didn’t need individual comfort zones? When they were riding high, I must have heard a dozen interviews with A’s extolling their mix-and-match lineups. The media focus on the Cespedes trade was the most annoying story of the second half. What bugged me the most was the constant refrain of, “They traded their cleanup hitter?!?” No, they didn’t trade Brandon Moss. Before the trade, Moss started at cleanup in 72 of 107 games; Cespedes started just… Read more »

Editor

Doug

9 years ago

Reply to John Autin

Ripken’s comment was more along the lines of your last paragraph. He wasn’t getting into batting order or anything as specific as that.

tag

9 years ago

As a Cubs fan, I’d love for JedTheo to get Shark back, for 50 cents on the Russell. With their wealth of young SS, the Cubs must have an A ball version who could lure Billy into sending the maneater back to Chicago next season.

If not, I sincerely hope Billy looks back on that trade and cries him a good two or three rivers.

Voomo Zanzibar

9 years ago

Reply to tag

Samardzija on the season:

219.2 IP
1.065 WHIP
7 – 13 (.350)

Who has had at least 200 IP, a WHIP under 1.1, and a W% of .350 or worse:

Turk Farrell
Jeff Samardzija
Jack Warhop
______

Farrell was the workhorse on a 96 loss Colt .45s team.
(7.0 WAR)

Warhop was a deadball Yankee who gave up 1 or 0 earned runs in 10 of his 15 losses.

Samardzija gave up zero earned runs 8 times.
Good for one win and seven no-decisions
(his teams lost all seven)

mosc

9 years ago

Reply to tag

The cubs could trade off a shortstop very easily this offseason. Especially with his contract, Castro’s probably worth more in total value to a ballclub going into 2015 than Hanley Ramirez. Baez or Russel can cover 2B/3B pretty well for them too should the cubs opt to trade high on Valbuena with so many teams looking for help at third (and Olt apparently on his way to being a corner outfielder).

Gary Bateman

9 years ago

Another thing I find interesting about the Boudreau-Gordon link is that Boudreau was the first manager of the KC A’s and Gordon was the first manager of the KC Royals.

I grew up in Kansas City, becoming hooked on baseball about the time that Charles Finley purchased the team. The knock on the A’s prior to the ownership change was that the Yankees were using them as a farm team (Maris, Boyer, Lopez et al). Coincidentally, the Kansas City Blues were the Yankees’ top farm club from 1937 to 1954, at which time the A’s moved to KC.

Author

birtelcom

9 years ago

With Adam Dunn announcing his retirement, 🙁 , and Jim Thome officially recognizing the retirement that had been a practical reality for a while, Reggie Jackson’s long-standing career strikeout record seems pretty safe for a very long time. The only remaining threat over the next few years would be if A-Rod returns from exile somehow restored to his earlier capacity for full-time play for the full remaining term of his Yankee contract and with peak levels of strikeouts. Barring such a scenario, there no longer seems to be any foreseeable challenger to Reggie’s record on the horizon.

Editor

Doug

9 years ago

Reply to birtelcom

B.J. Upton is a long shot, but could possibly do it. Eight more seasons (age 30-37) averaging 160 Ks would put him past Reggie. But, he’ll need to find his offensive game again which has essentially disappeared since coming to the NL.

David P

9 years ago

Reply to Doug

Mike Trout is 272 Ks ahead of Reggie at the same age and coming off a season with 13 more Ks than anything Reggie ever did. Still a long ways to go but Trout could blow by Reggie someday.

David P

9 years ago

Reply to David P

BTW, despite people being a bit down on Trout, he was the first person to have 50+ Rbat in his age 22 season since Dick Allen 50 years ago.

Author

birtelcom

9 years ago

Reply to David P

To some extent, the cooling down of Trout’s extreme fielding numbers and of the SB numbers have allowed people to focus on just how incredible his pure hitting numbers are.

Most Rbat through Age 22 Season:
1. Ted Williams 209.1
2. Mel Ott 173.1
3. Mike Trout 171.4
4. Jimmie Foxx 150.6
5. Ty Cobb 145.4
6. Mickey Mantle 119.9

bstar

9 years ago

Reply to David P

Another striking number is that Trout has flat-out been baseball’s best hitter in his first three full years in the league. Since the start of 2012:

WAR batting runs

172…Mike Trout
151…Miguel Cabrera
140…Andrew McCutchen
105…Robinson Cano
105…Buster Posey

Ted Williams also did this, outhitting Joe D by 29 batting runs (209 to 180) to lead MLB from 1939-1941.

I’ll leave it to the imagination to wonder what George H. Ruth did in his first three full years as a hitter. Just obscene.

Lawrence Azrin

9 years ago

Reply to David P

@47,

I first thought of Frank Thomas from 1991-93 (best hitter in MLB 1st 3 yrs), but Barry Bonds gets in the way, beating him by 9 runs. Same problem for Albert Pujols from 2001-2003.

Gehrig doesn’t stand a chance again Ruth, even if you count 1926 as the 1st full year. Hornsby had Cobb and Speaker to contend with. Cobb had Wagner, Speaker had Cobb. Anyone else – Musial? Mantle?

David P

9 years ago

Reply to David P

Lawrence:

Just checked Mantle and he has a sizable lead over #2 for both the 55-57, and 56-58 periods.

What’s amazing though is the person in second place is Ted Williams who was over a decade older than Mantle and had about 450 fewer PAs than Mantle in both of the periods.

David P

9 years ago

Reply to David P

Actually those weren’t Mantle’s first three seasons. Guess I didn’t understand the exercise at first.

bstar

9 years ago

Reply to David P

Eddie Mathews (158 Rbat) made a good run at it from 1953-55, losing by 15 batting runs to Duke Snider (173) and 2 to Musial (160).

Same thing for Dick Allen (142 Rbat) from 1964-66. He was bested by Mays (156) and Frank Robinson (154).

DavidP: this is for first three full years of a career. Mantle was 6th in MLB in batting runs from 1952-54.

Richard Chester

9 years ago

Reply to David P

Here are the top 10 3-consecutive year periods of Batting Runs. Data has been extracted from Fangraphs and then subjected to Excel spreadsheet analysis. Shown are the last year of the 3 year period, the number of Batting runs and the player.

2003….306….Barry Bonds
1921….296….Babe Ruth
2004….295….Barry Bonds
1928….294….Babe Ruth
1923….291….Babe Ruth
2002….288….Barry Bonds
1922….281….Babe Ruth
1924….274….Babe Ruth
1932….271….Babe Ruth
1946….271….Ted Williams

Mike Trout’s total of 164 from 2012-2014 was good for 130th place.

Richard Chester

9 years ago

Reply to David P

@52

For those of you who are interested here’s the list of remaining players who accumulated 200+ Batting Runs over a 3-year period at least once.

Lou Gehrig
Jimmie Foxx
Rogers Hornsby
Mickey Mantle
Stan Musial
Ty Cobb
Mark McGwire
Jason Giambi

Gary Bateman

9 years ago

Reply to David P

bstar, Eddie Mathews’ first season (145 games) was 1952, in which he only compiled 7 Rbat, so 116 is the total for his first three seasons.

bstar

9 years ago

Reply to David P

Thanks, Gary! I think the brain malfunction happened because a lot of these guys I was looking at had a cup-of-coffee first year, so I glossed over year 1 for Mathews.