This Circle of Greats (COG) vote is not to induct anyone into the Circle, but only to select three players who will be restored back to the main ballot after having been previously dropped from eligibility. This tenth and last “redemption round” (we’ve been holding such redemption rounds interspersed among the regular voting rounds every tenth voting round or so) gives voters a chance to reconsider past candidates who have previously fallen off the regular induction ballots.
In this vote you may include on your three-man ballot any major league baseball player who was born between 1880 and 1970 and has not been elected to the Circle of Greats and is not currently on the 1878-79 COG ballot. As usual, you must vote for three and only three players to cast a qualifying ballot. The three players who appear on the most ballots will be restored to eligibility for the next regular, induction round of COG voting.
There are many players who are eligible for your votes in this redemption round. As an optional aid to your selection process, I’ve put together two lists, one for pitchers and one for everyday players, that include some stats for a substantial selection of relevant players: Redemption Round #10 Optional Player Lists. Both lists (the two lists are on separate sheets in the workbook) show the players who rank in the top 200 in career Batting or Pitching WAR among those born between 1880 and 1970. Again, these spreadsheets represent entirely discretionary lists — your full options are as stated: all major leaguers born between 1880 and 1970 who have not been inducted into the COG and are not on the 1878-79 ballot that is also the subject of a vote this week.
The deadline to cast your ballots in this redemption round is Tuesday night, October 27th at 11:59PM EDT. You can change your votes until 11:59PM EDT on Sunday night, October 25th. You can keep track of the vote tally in this redemption round here: COG Redemption Round 10 Vote Tally.
The optional player list required me to ask for permission. Can this document be “opened up” please?
If you look in the 1880 COG balloting, a few of us had some nice discussions about “misses” in the COG. That has completely determined where I’m going with this vote.
Willie Randolph
Rick Reuschel
Jim Bunning
I’m going to change my vote here.
Willie Randolph
Rick Reuschel
Wes Ferrell
Wes Ferrell, Ted Lyons, Rick Reuschel
Wes Ferrell, Monte Irvin, Willie Randolph
I decided to go with a trio who had brothers who played the game, too.
Ken Boyer
Joe Sewell
Wes Ferrell
Wes Ferrell, Ken Boyer, Sal Bando
Sorry, I wasn’t able to see the list of candidates so I forgot about Jim Edmonds. I’m changing my vote to Ferrell, Boyer, Edmonds.
Sorry about the link to the Player Stats. It should work now.
I can’t see anyone from the lists making it all the way to the COG at this point. I’m simply voting for a Red Sox outfield.
Jim Rice, Fred Lynn, Dwight Evans (with apologies to Tony Armas)
I don’t know. There was a time when I was almost positive that we would still be making up our minds on Kenny Lofton when we were casting our final ballot.
Willie Randolph
Don Sutton
Tommy John, for contributions!
Bobby Bonds, Billy Williams, Ted Simmons
Vote:
Stan Coveleski
Wes Ferrell
Willie Randolph
Wes Ferrell, Ken Boyer, Bobby Bonds
Rick Reuschel, Buddy Bell and Red Faber
Reuschel, Billy Williams, Reggie Smith
Jim Abbott
Curtis Pride
Jim Eisenreich
Reggie Smith, Ted Lyons, Wes Ferrell
Smith deserves a shot, Ferrell deserves another one, and Lyons only barely got knocked off the holdover list after hanging on for a long time.
I hate to leave Dwight Evans off as I am sure he belongs, but I don’t think another spell on the ballot would be to any avail.
Palmeiro, B. Bell, Coveleski
Raffy is 1 of only 5 players with 3000 H and 500 HR, no easy feat with steroids or not. Bell is one of those rare 3B guys (ranks a bit higher at his position than Randolph), and Coveleski has an efficient WAR gain rate of 1 per 47.4 innings (separating him from the other high 60’s WAR pitchers). Not sure any of the remaining outfielders could get into the COG, given the traffic among holdovers.
Rick Reuschel, Hal Newhouser, Reggie Smith
Palmeiro, Mattingly, Munson
Vote Change: Reggie Smith, Ted Lyons, Hal Newhouser
I think I’ll switch Newhouser for Ferrell; Ferrell already spent a good deal of time on the ballot, and the COG voting seems especially hard on ‘war baseball’.
Since my vote apparently never registered when I tried a couple of days ago, here is my customary vote for the ONLY THREE PEOPLE eligible for the silly redemption round who are actually worthy:
Jim Abbott
Curtis Pride
Jim Eisenreich
Actually, it apparently DID register a couple of days ago, and I’m just an idiot. Still better than voting for Reggie Smith or Bobby Bonds.
Vote update – showing all players with multiple votes through Hub Kid’s vote change above:
7 – Wes Ferrell
5 – Rick Reuschel
4 – Willie Randolph
——-
3 – Ken Boyer, Reggie Smith
2 – Buddy Bell, Bobby Bonds, Stan Coveleski, Ted Lyons, Hal Newhouser, Rafael Palmeiro, Billy Williams
Also, as a personal aside, when you make a vote change, could you please do as Hub Kid did and post it to the bottom of the post? (I realize I didn’t do that when I made my own change, and i regret it). With no numbers on the posts now, it’s REALLY hard to figure out where the most recent posts are unless they’re added to the bottom. So thank you to Hub Kid, and hopefully the rest of us will follow suit. Thanks!
Vote Change: Palmeiro, Reuschel, Randolph
Since Coveleski and Bell do not seem to be getting any real traction, I’ll toss those votes to Reuschel and Randolph to help them out. 2 out of 3 might just recycle for one last try – oh well. If a few voters are creative at the last minute, lots of ties could be set up and the ballot could be flooded with redeemed hopefuls. A number of interesting players enter for 1877-76 as well, which would create a huge free-for-all! Given the small number of votes, I guess redemption interest has dropped off – the rest of these guys are just too hard to separate from the pack.
Randolph, Munson, Mattingly.
Vote: Rick Reuschel, Reggie Smith, Ken Boyer
Wow, it’s the last redemption round! It seems like the combination of site issues and the fact that we’ve been through this list many a time before has kept the participation in this thread kind of low. I get it, there’s only so much that can be said about these guys, but it’s too bad to see because this used to be my favourite part of the process, where we could debate marginal players. Anyway, I haven’t been coming around either, I stopped by yesterday and I didn’t even know the site had been down, that was how long since I’d checked. Good to see it’s revamped with some new content.
Since I’m here, I feel like I should have one more kick at the can, and note the players that’ve come through the pipeline over the couple of years we’ve been doing this process. I have my own ranking system for players, which is based on cumulative rank of 4 advanced stats (WAR, WAA+, JAWS and WAR*WAR/162G or 250IP). Lowest cumulative rank is ranked highest, and that’s a starting point for finer player separation. Anyway, I’ve got 97 players on there (not updated since 1888 round, though) over 50 WAR; here are the top 50, for those who want to take a trip down memory lane:
1. Rick Reuschel (by far)
2. Hal Newhouser
3. David Cone
4. Reggie Smith
5. Ted Lyons
6. Mark McGwire
7. Rafael Palmeiro
8. Buddy Bell
9. Willie Randolph
10. Ken Boyer
11. Stan Covaleski
12. Sal Bando
13. Bret Saberhagen
14. Wes Ferrell
15. Don Drysdale
16. Jim Edmonds
17. Dwight Evans
18. Red Faber
19. Jim Bunning
20. Billy Williams
21. Keith Hernandez
22. Urban Shocker
23. Dave Stieb
24. Bobby Bonds
25. Sammy Sosa
26. Red Ruffing
27. Kevin Appier
28. Jim Wynn
29. Chuck Finley
30. Gary Sheffield
31. Bob Johnson
32. Don Sutton
33. Bill Terry
34. Willie Davis
35. Zack Wheat
36. Tommy John
37. Darrell Evans
38. Joe Medwick
39. John Olerud
40. Orel Hershiser
41. Chet Lemon
42. Will Clark
43. Robin Ventura
44. Willie Stargell
45. Joe Torre
46. Early Wynn
47. Jeff Kent
48. Cesar Cedeno
49. Dwight Gooden
50. Bucky Walters
You could definitely make an argument to me that any of the top 20 belongs back on the ballot, and even some select lower ranked players too. I count no fewer than four players (Reuschel, Cone, Drysdale and Evans) that have been redeemed twice already, by my memory. I don’t think that’s a good track record, if they’re still back here, but then if they’ve never been redeemed, that’s an almost worse track record. I’m still going to take another tilt at that windmill though and vote for Reuschel, because I think he’s just above the other candidates, stats-wise. I’m a bit bummed that Newhouser never got more than the 6 votes in his one ballot appearance (when he needed 7 to stay on, remember those days?), because I think his career deserved to have a closer look. Then again, there are lots of players that deserved a closer look that didn’t, so Randolph being third in voting and being one of them is fine with me. Reggie Smith has been a nearly man in this process many times too, so I’m tempted to vote for him, as he’s close again now and a personal favourite. Ferrell is a favourite too, and he’s ranked so low down because I don’t know what to do with his unique skillset, ie. his hitting stats. I didn’t include his hitting in WAA+ because that’s a bit complicated to put together, but if I did, he’d be 2nd among candidates overall. His career was compelling enough for me to want him back on the ballot.
Okay, I’ll make my peace with Newhouser not getting a shot, and give a shoutout to a player I’ve come to discover and appreciate through this process, Reggie Smith.
Vote: Reuschel, Ferrell, Smith.
All those with 3+ votes, on this final day of voting:
8 – Wes Ferrell, Rick Reuschel
6 – Willie Randolph
======TOP THREE
5 – Reggie Smith
4 – Ken Boyer
For Redemption Round 10, I’m voting for:
-Willie Randolph
-Don Sutton
-Rafael Palmeiro
Last day, just in time!
Ken Boyer – Stan Coveleski – Keith Hernandez
I think that there should be an option for voting for less than three players. But that’s just my opinion.
Willie Randolph.
Bobby Bonds.
Billy Williams
Assuming the Dr.’s tally is correct and I’m not missing anything (I count 3 votes after his post) it appears we have a 3-way tie.
Now what?
Do we have a runoff election or do all 3 go back on the ballot?
My vote would be for all 3 to go on the ballot & let the voters sort it out, which I think will happen in fairly short order.
1. We’ve had ties before, and everyone always gets restored.
More importantly, though:
2. “The three players who appear on the most ballots will be restored to eligibility for the next regular, induction round of COG voting.” We’ve always restored three.
So yeah; Ferrell, Randolph, and Reuschel will all be restored to the ballot.
I’m sure you’re right that when we have had combined redemption rounds we restored 3- I honestly don’t remember- but when we were doing the divided rounds wasn’t it just 2?
Of course there were 2 separate rounds so it actually wound up being 4 total, altho on different elections.
I think this round is intended to have 3 winners redeemed to the ballot, so a 3 way tie is curiously symmetrical.